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Messages - Imposition

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31
Interzone / Re: The 'hubris' of atheism/science/physicalism - and the rest
« on: February 19, 2014, 02:06:48 AM »
Between Imposition and Vigilance, you two really woke me up.
I can be downright scary when I'm awake.
I'm gonna try to go back to sleep again, OK?
Before I completely overrun the forum.

And I should get back to work. Good day to you all.

32
Interzone / Re: The 'hubris' of atheism/science/physicalism - and the rest
« on: February 19, 2014, 02:05:54 AM »
Ah! But don't you sometimes want to know what is at the bottom of a quark, if other life exists in the universe, where matter goes when it enters a black hole, what was 'there' before the big bang, and what will happen to the universe?

The religious parts of my brain fire incessantly to these questions :)

33
Interzone / Re: The 'hubris' of atheism/science/physicalism - and the rest
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:53:27 AM »
Agreed. Science is indispensable to human achievement.
Unfortunately, it is what humans use it for that gets it an understandably well-deserved bad rep.

Agreed. Valuable, useful things can be abused and even the most nourishing food can kill you if you eat too much.

34
Interzone / Re: The 'hubris' of atheism/science/physicalism - and the rest
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:44:46 AM »
Thanks.

I don't believe individuals can rid themselves of EGO. I think it needs institutions - collective practices (not necessary a 'state' - I mean to stay away from politics/ethics here). THIS is why science is making (ontological) progress - because its not about the individual. You are criticized, lynched, tested, cross-examined, peer-reviewed, and ultimately will do something small and arduous for your career - but this thing will be a small piece in a bigger, more glorious pie.

Just like reality in-itself, science is an IMPOSITION upon the individual, not an avenue for warm self-fulfillment or some instant achievement of mystical union of self with all. It's hard, boring, tedious, and compartmentalized - but when you look back on it from a higher perspective (such as when reading a popular science book on cosmology, or a paul davies book) - it is beautiful.

35
Interzone / Re: The 'hubris' of atheism/science/physicalism - and the rest
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:34:40 AM »
Building a railroad to Mars is never going to work.
That's a metaphor, by the way.
Whereas building a railroad to Philadelphia is a worthy and doable project.
If you live in the Americas.

Science would do better sticking to the physical.
Leave the metaphysical to those who intuit.

Part of my worry, connected with my first post, and one that will connect with your own thinking, is that IMO the metaphysical (in your sense of the word - not analytic metaphysics in current philosophy) is simply the EGO taking over. Science (not necessarily the ethical beliefs of individual scientists - but the methodology or philosophy of doing science) is nihilism in action. Religion, traditional metaphysics, mysticism - is just the EGO (the evolved human brain) coming up with (different sorts of) anthropocentric theories - or theories that have upshots for humans-all-too-humans - about 'reality'.

36
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:21:26 AM »
...if you cannot communicate it - then you are failing (I mean this with no spite intended).


Bull. I have run into that accusation enough times to have thoroughly disassembled it, examined it, reassembled it and discarded it as rubbish.
There is nothing that can be communicated, by any means whatsoever, to anyone not interested in receiving the message.

I agree there are standards both people in a conversation have to put 'faith' in - if the conversation is to get anywhere - but these come in degrees.

2+2=4, no matter how interested I am.

37
Interzone / The 'hubris' of atheism/science/physicalism - and the rest
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:20:03 AM »
In relation to some of the vague mysticism, traditionalism, and sometimes even outright (theistic?) hostility towards 'atheists' that occurs around here - one of the main charges against their opponents is the arrogance/hubris/gall of science.

A very religious charge, interestingly.

"Scientists think they know everything" is the basic line. This is, possibly, the biggest straw man, and illustration of lack of familiarity of subject matter at hand, in history.

I would like to call my first witness to the stand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdWj8fXHQLg

A a collective, there is a supreme humility towards reality in the physical sciences. Acknowledgement of doubt, and willingness to sacrifice time, riches, women and 'earthly' pleasures (has anyone attempted a PhD?).

This stands in contrast to movements and individuals throughout history who claim to be 'the voice of god', to have 'special access to the truth', and to characterize the nature of reality without ever having to wade into territory that is psychologically unpleasant or threatening. It is no surprise that religious ontology usually comes with an upshot for the individual - whether this be reincarnation, relaxation, a sense of 'unity', inner peace, disillusion of the ego, individual rights, equality etc.

38
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:04:41 AM »
I gained access to the entire cosmos, always, everywhere, all of it.
That's God, in case you were wondering.
The larger Reality.

I gained some sort of access to 'God' (or the larger reality - but devoid of agency) through post-perceptual cognition (and god is the ontology of science). I have done a lot of thinking and reading in my (limited) time on earth too. Eastern religion, perennialism, philosophy, science, psychology, evolutionary theory, economics. Please don't dismiss other people because you feel you have the truth - if you cannot communicate it - then you are failing (I mean this with no spite intended).

39
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:55:54 AM »
Exactly. You can not imagine it, therefore you conclude it can not be so.
Can you not see the logical fallacy there?

I feel now that you're deliberately being uncharitable - probably out of ego.

When I said 'imagine' I obviously meant I cannot conceive of it. It makes no conceptual sense. You can say you have access to other ways of 'making sense' - apart from logic - but then the conversation ends, and we go our separate ways.

I was (along with Vigilance) specifically talking about perception.


40
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:31:14 AM »
What makes you think you are equipped to determine that my perceptions are not capable of sensing a complete picture? You may be right inasfar as that applies to you. But how can you know it applies to me?

Because you are member of the species homo sapiens. You have the same hardware as any of us. You may have developed admirable meditation skills and a life time of wisdom, but please... your perceptual apparatus works in the same way as the rest of ours do. Remember we are talking about pre-willed-processing. You may have accumulated, through reflection, insights about the nature of reality that the rest of us don't share - but when you're walking around seeing, hearing, feeling - then I can see no credible way you have access to reality in a way I do not have.

41
Interzone / Re: Atheism
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:29:04 AM »
Quite. As you wrote in that thread:

a prime example of what can happen when a perfectly capable brain is left to deal with automatic processing

 ;)

42
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:26:19 AM »
Your perceptions are not a complete picture and certainly not "reality as it is" but reality filtered by sense, compiled, sorted and presented by brains.

I think this is the key point.

Also, the LSD movement in the 60's, heavily influenced by Huxley's 'Doors Of Perception' tried to assert similar access to the 'noumenon': that LSD allows you, for the fleeting time you are under its influence, to experience reality 'as it is'.

43
Interzone / Re: Atheism
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:23:48 AM »
Atheists believe in science, thay don't care for anything but science. They don't care for nothing before science prove, atheists are ignorants.

Kill atheists and then ask them how does it feel to burn in hell you pathetic egoist and humanist.

I think you two were aiming for the 'Birdbrain' thread?

44
Metal / Re: Ildjarn bandcamp
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:20:25 AM »
This is quite beautiful and it would have been nice to hear more along these lines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNUwqD9wzgg

45
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 18, 2014, 07:09:57 AM »
Then I am glad i did not disappoint!

Not spoiled, just slightly too dismissive of modernity, in my opinion.

Nothing is as black and white as it first appears.

Heh, I did not want that type of response, so I was indeed disappointed. So if you are being sarcastic, I cannot tell.

My point is this: over-thinking (sometimes any thinking at all) and over-analyzing is not beneficial. I have not the time to elaborate further presently.

Yes, I was being cheerfully sarcastic.

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