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Messages - Imposition

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46
Interzone / The 'hubris' of atheism/science/physicalism - and the rest
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:20:03 AM »
In relation to some of the vague mysticism, traditionalism, and sometimes even outright (theistic?) hostility towards 'atheists' that occurs around here - one of the main charges against their opponents is the arrogance/hubris/gall of science.

A very religious charge, interestingly.

"Scientists think they know everything" is the basic line. This is, possibly, the biggest straw man, and illustration of lack of familiarity of subject matter at hand, in history.

I would like to call my first witness to the stand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdWj8fXHQLg

A a collective, there is a supreme humility towards reality in the physical sciences. Acknowledgement of doubt, and willingness to sacrifice time, riches, women and 'earthly' pleasures (has anyone attempted a PhD?).

This stands in contrast to movements and individuals throughout history who claim to be 'the voice of god', to have 'special access to the truth', and to characterize the nature of reality without ever having to wade into territory that is psychologically unpleasant or threatening. It is no surprise that religious ontology usually comes with an upshot for the individual - whether this be reincarnation, relaxation, a sense of 'unity', inner peace, disillusion of the ego, individual rights, equality etc.

47
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:04:41 AM »
I gained access to the entire cosmos, always, everywhere, all of it.
That's God, in case you were wondering.
The larger Reality.

I gained some sort of access to 'God' (or the larger reality - but devoid of agency) through post-perceptual cognition (and god is the ontology of science). I have done a lot of thinking and reading in my (limited) time on earth too. Eastern religion, perennialism, philosophy, science, psychology, evolutionary theory, economics. Please don't dismiss other people because you feel you have the truth - if you cannot communicate it - then you are failing (I mean this with no spite intended).

48
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:55:54 AM »
Exactly. You can not imagine it, therefore you conclude it can not be so.
Can you not see the logical fallacy there?

I feel now that you're deliberately being uncharitable - probably out of ego.

When I said 'imagine' I obviously meant I cannot conceive of it. It makes no conceptual sense. You can say you have access to other ways of 'making sense' - apart from logic - but then the conversation ends, and we go our separate ways.

I was (along with Vigilance) specifically talking about perception.


49
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:31:14 AM »
What makes you think you are equipped to determine that my perceptions are not capable of sensing a complete picture? You may be right inasfar as that applies to you. But how can you know it applies to me?

Because you are member of the species homo sapiens. You have the same hardware as any of us. You may have developed admirable meditation skills and a life time of wisdom, but please... your perceptual apparatus works in the same way as the rest of ours do. Remember we are talking about pre-willed-processing. You may have accumulated, through reflection, insights about the nature of reality that the rest of us don't share - but when you're walking around seeing, hearing, feeling - then I can see no credible way you have access to reality in a way I do not have.

50
Interzone / Re: Atheism
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:29:04 AM »
Quite. As you wrote in that thread:

a prime example of what can happen when a perfectly capable brain is left to deal with automatic processing

 ;)

51
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:26:19 AM »
Your perceptions are not a complete picture and certainly not "reality as it is" but reality filtered by sense, compiled, sorted and presented by brains.

I think this is the key point.

Also, the LSD movement in the 60's, heavily influenced by Huxley's 'Doors Of Perception' tried to assert similar access to the 'noumenon': that LSD allows you, for the fleeting time you are under its influence, to experience reality 'as it is'.

52
Interzone / Re: Atheism
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:23:48 AM »
Atheists believe in science, thay don't care for anything but science. They don't care for nothing before science prove, atheists are ignorants.

Kill atheists and then ask them how does it feel to burn in hell you pathetic egoist and humanist.

I think you two were aiming for the 'Birdbrain' thread?

53
Metal / Re: Ildjarn bandcamp
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:20:25 AM »
This is quite beautiful and it would have been nice to hear more along these lines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNUwqD9wzgg

54
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 18, 2014, 07:09:57 AM »
Then I am glad i did not disappoint!

Not spoiled, just slightly too dismissive of modernity, in my opinion.

Nothing is as black and white as it first appears.

Heh, I did not want that type of response, so I was indeed disappointed. So if you are being sarcastic, I cannot tell.

My point is this: over-thinking (sometimes any thinking at all) and over-analyzing is not beneficial. I have not the time to elaborate further presently.

Yes, I was being cheerfully sarcastic.

55
Metal / Re: Ildjarn bandcamp
« on: February 18, 2014, 07:05:42 AM »
Do you mean the music, the words or both?

The music

56
Metal / Re: Ildjarn bandcamp
« on: February 18, 2014, 04:24:58 AM »
Ildjarn remains similar in appearance, to my sensibilities, to the rantings of an idiot-savant.

But that it just me.

57
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 18, 2014, 04:11:58 AM »
You are on your way to killing the consumer inside you.
Congrats :)

To practice meditation to the point where you can take this mindset around with you - while you are active (i.e. getting buses, driving, walking in city)...

Now that would be ideal. Sometimes it happens. Rarely.

58
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 18, 2014, 04:09:22 AM »
You know what else is overrated? Science. Seems like the more people attempt to explain and hypothesize everything, the further they get from experiencing anything and, hence, knowing anything. Seems like a lot of effort to do a bunch of insane stuff. I think that humans "know" way too much nowadays in general. Information overload. I say stop analyzing everything; it is best to know what is necessary in order to live successfully, and no more.

If it wasn't for the science you deride, you wouldn't be able to have the time, equipment, and safety/comfort to enjoy a piece of Bach's, or a zen session. So you're experiences would be limited. So perhaps things balance out in the end, hey?

This is the exact type of response that I anticipated, haha :P I suppose that my statements seem spoiled and ignorant to you? I was generalizing, anyway.

Then I am glad i did not disappoint!

Not spoiled, just slightly too dismissive of modernity, in my opinion.

Nothing is as black and white as it first appears.

59
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 18, 2014, 04:06:33 AM »
Aha :)
Now there's a seriously good idea.
Better yet: save it only for special occasions, where you can give it your whole attention, and forego the rest.

I sometimes think the same. I listen too much, and have switched to podcasts a bit more instead. I prefer even more to play music with other people - but this is nearly impossibly as of late due to circumstances.

Also, I feel like posting to the 'band you are listening to today' thread in the metal boards more, but then think, this isn't a kill tally.

60
Interzone / Re: The way things are - The way things ought to be
« on: February 18, 2014, 03:27:36 AM »
You know what else is overrated? Science. Seems like the more people attempt to explain and hypothesize everything, the further they get from experiencing anything and, hence, knowing anything. Seems like a lot of effort to do a bunch of insane stuff. I think that humans "know" way too much nowadays in general. Information overload. I say stop analyzing everything; it is best to know what is necessary in order to live successfully, and no more.

If it wasn't for the science you deride, you wouldn't be able to have the time, equipment, and safety/comfort to enjoy a piece of Bach's, or a zen session. So you're experiences would be limited. So perhaps things balance out in the end, hey?

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