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Messages - Vigilance

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181
Interzone / Re: Atheism
« on: January 20, 2014, 08:24:02 PM »
Atheism is boring. It accepts the same ethics and cosmology as its parent theistic faith.

182
Interzone / Re: deductive or prescriptive
« on: January 20, 2014, 05:28:39 PM »
I see the confusion. The aim all along isn't creating value judgments but instead causing results.

In the original article, collective value judgment replaces creating results as an overarching goal. Strangely, results no longer matter much because maintaining ideology is paramount. This is because we ended up best rewarded socially and economically in consistently upholding the ideology regardless of outcome.

Discarding value judgments in the pursuit of an outcome that may or may not fail to fit the ideal narrative or its methods would fit a nihilistic mind.

What I was getting at is that the optimal result is always going to be determined by a value judgment.

It's worth mentioning that the Rationalist Religion of Progress did provide results for over 300 years of industry. The delusion of infinite growth remains despite the depletion of the resource base that made the ideology viable in the first place is the reason results are no longer happening.

Of course, the partisans of this brand of rationalist ideology will retreat into the comfort of increasingly desperate fantasy. Commonplace behavior for people who's conception of the world is about to shatter.

183
Interzone / Re: "The poor": kill them
« on: January 20, 2014, 05:16:11 PM »
How does one measure "the poor" in times of decline?

184
Interzone / Re: deductive or prescriptive
« on: January 17, 2014, 09:00:16 PM »
You've accurately identified the failure of rationalism: mistaking abstractions for the things they represent.

In providing a solution to the error, you reassert rationalism, inadvertently becoming a partisan of the sort you decry.

185
Interzone / Re: deductive or prescriptive
« on: January 17, 2014, 08:34:09 PM »
Conflating rationalism with the cultural narratives of a rationalist period is not remotely helpful and it confuses your entire argument. Empiricism is a subset of rationalism. Deductive value system is purely rationalist.

Action B has outcomes X or Y. Action C produces outcome W or Z. From what perspective are the outcomes analyzed to determine the preferable course of action? Given the reality of human behavior, one may empirically derive outcome, but empiricism won't tell you which avenue to proceed with. It is ill equipped to handle the "why"

"We should do this" completes the circuit as you're looking for empirical evidence to support a pre-existing value during the process of deduction.

186
Interzone / Re: "The poor": kill them
« on: January 17, 2014, 04:00:28 PM »
There are so many useless regulations to "help" the poor, I'd rather be left without any government intervention. Poor folk really need to be let go. Then chaos ensues as they freak over how they can't be fed directly by food stamps and such, and then the true weeding out and enrichment of the poor strata begins.

What happens when they hold you up in your car with a knife, or break into your home while your children sleep, perhaps raping one of them and/or stabbing them in a fit of panic?

Do you want to live in a South African type city, where it is unsafe to be anywhere unless it's behind large walls - an effective 'green zone'? Welfare exists not just for the benefit of the poor.

All empires gradually impoverish their citizens, it's simply the nature of the business. Considering we are on the decline, these polemic arguments are not applicable because, by any honest measure, the amount of options one has is contracting year by year.

There's also the blank faced, wide eyed, mimicking of baby boomer propaganda that says hard work and a career will bring you success. If one does not follow their pattern, one is a lazy slacker. Almost no consideration is made towards the conditions that allowed the boomers to attend universities and find well paying work. Further, there is the high tendency to become nonsensically reactionary against liberalism, or that which is perceived as liberalism. The answer to one extreme is not always the other as demonstrated by you in this post.

I'm not interested in propping up our society, but I'm not interested in watching it devolve into a third world crime den either. There has to be a constructive option.

Edit: I didn't mean to implicate you, imposition, of using polemics. That was intended for most of what was being entertained in this thread.

Editing the Edit:

It's far too common place to discuss human beings without grounding that discussion in real world conditions and cultural context.

187
Interzone / Re: Tolkien
« on: January 14, 2014, 03:53:10 PM »
Funnily enough, Burzum took the supposed binary (good vs evil) moral conflict of Tolkien's story and turned it on it's head, whilst primarily being inspired by the same deep sense of fantasy that Tolkien seemingly was. Do you think Tolkien would still uphold the same political, social or religious affiliations if he were around today? Or is it more so the dominant attitude of an era filtering through the work of an artist.

Yes he would because the conditions of the time of his writing have only exacerbated themselves.

However, given that the boomers gave into priviledge and industrialization, it's entirely possible that Saruman would be welcomed into the shire. It is a tough prediction to make as the books are heroic not defeatist.

188
Metal / Re: Bands worth hearing thread
« on: January 14, 2014, 04:55:28 AM »
After wasting my time with Obliteration I'd prefer to give Zealotry (thanks Fenrir) and the new Sammath more spins than check out crap.

A few "best of" that I'd like some cents on:
Krypts - Unending Degradation
Beyond - Fatal Power of Death

189
Interzone / Re: Tolkien
« on: January 13, 2014, 06:10:25 PM »
The ass chapping part for me isn't the fantasy, it's that the fantasy is all you see being represented from supposed "Tolkien inspired" work.

190
Metal / Re: What bands are you listening to today?
« on: January 12, 2014, 07:14:10 PM »
I don't know anyone in metal circles that really likes RP, most haven't even heard of them. Step outside of that and every punk/crustie drools.

Cacaphony is weird, an entire album about the life of HP Lovecraft set to the music of a schizophrenic, literally.

191
Metal / Re: What bands are you listening to today?
« on: January 12, 2014, 07:06:51 PM »
Good to see another RP fan.

Today so far, Dr Know and Nominon.

192
Interzone / Re: animals and lessons
« on: January 11, 2014, 10:55:04 PM »
Maybe we are spiritually caught in a type of web. And the majority of the people are ''stoned'' by the venom of the spider who built that web, oblivious that they are about to be eaten by it. You get affraid when the venom isn't working because you see what is at the end. We could say that the spider is the all consuming Time and that we are trapped by it's web.


Maybe that's why a lot of people are affraid of spiders.

As much as I HATE memes, the fit was perfect.


193
Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 11, 2014, 10:46:43 PM »
That is the particular strain found in this forum Prozak.

194
Interzone / Re: Who are the pests?
« on: January 11, 2014, 08:44:00 PM »
I think he means Acute Identity Dissemination Syndrome.

195
Interzone / Re: animals and lessons
« on: January 11, 2014, 08:35:21 PM »
Snakes are magnificent creatures. I'd own a few if I didn't have these moral aversions to keeping living things in boxes.

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