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Messages - Vigilance

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Metal / Re: Dystopia-Hands That Mold
« on: December 28, 2013, 08:52:29 AM »
Dystopia was one of the few crust/punk bands who's music matched the words. The aesthetics of human=garbage are a high mark of that musical tradition.

Interzone / Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
« on: December 28, 2013, 08:49:06 AM »
Most Protestants I know affectionately refer to Mormons as a cult, despite their size.

Interzone / Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
« on: December 27, 2013, 10:01:55 PM »
That doesn't sound much like a cult at all, really.
On the other hand, what is a cult?
I was once a member of a crazy outfit called Eckankar, which was generally taken to be a cult.
Very business-savvy, it was. Did well, until the usual power-struggle hurled it into disarray.

A cult is whatever a practitioner of a different religion doesn't like.

Interzone / Re: Descartes, Maxwell and Plato
« on: December 27, 2013, 07:24:42 PM »
Cellular Automata.

Metal / Re: Obscura vrs From Wisdom to Hate
« on: December 27, 2013, 09:28:02 AM »
All I can say to this is Nay. From Wisdom... does not compare to Obscura. Yes, it is more subtle than it initially appears. Yes, it shows some refinement (that obviously comes with age and practice). But muscially? Conceptually? Need bitterman to explain this, he wrote some great stuff about Obscura somewhere that I will try and find (though I will probably fail :( ).

Obscura is not overextended, Obscura is not filled with fireworks or whatever. Just under its dissonance is the very same (beautiful) voice that was on Erosion of Sanity, only slightly matured and extended. Obscura is not merely an experiment, it is fully realized and FWth is the compromise that followed when they probably (rightfully) guessed that they could never top it. I am quite surprised to see this opinion expressed here. Perhaps I am wrong and need to give the later album more time, though I do enjoy it quite a bit and listen to it on occasion, but Obscura I could listen to every day.

I dont intend to argue the superiority of Obscura, but I would like to see input from some more of us. This is quite a claim.

Edit: Perhaps I can summarize; everything I have found on FWth is in Obscura, only less so in the former album. I use this word a lot, but it is very appropriate for that album I think... Normed. From Wisdom is Obscura normed. Do give it more time, please.

I was going to say, FWTH is Obscura filtered through colloquialisms so it becomes more immediate to grab but less intriguing on the long run. FWTH feels like a collection of songs rather than an unfolding concept like Obscura.

Metal / Re: Obscura vrs From Wisdom to Hate
« on: December 24, 2013, 10:11:08 AM »
I liked FWTH for a time but years later I have no interest at all in listening to it. Prior to the newest album, it was the only item in their catalog I avoided.

Interzone / Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
« on: December 21, 2013, 08:00:53 PM »
"You can't prove God doesn't exist, therefore you believe on faith he doesn't!"

- Creationist 2013

Replace "God" with "non-material" and it's the same quality argument. Until someone can provide evidence that the "non-material" exists, it shouldn't be taken seriously.

Go ahead and parse words if you get off on being a nihilistic twat.

I'll restate:
again there is no evidence to date of the causal link going either direction.

This post is however ironic of you. Neither position has been sufficiently proven so the reality is, both are on equal ground. I imagine that you will have plenty to say to the contrary, but there's the hope that your own brand of religiousity will be tolerant.

It's worth stating that any axiomic system of knowledge is held together by faith in first principles held independent of that body of knowledge. Faith is a pillar of human thought upon which all achievements in that realm rest.

Interzone / Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
« on: December 20, 2013, 06:02:58 PM »
The most ugly philosophy is that which is secretly religious.

And a stout insistence that cosmos is mechanistic is devoid of relugiousity? Bullshit.

Interzone / Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
« on: December 20, 2013, 11:50:08 AM »
Let me ask you:  how are chemicals summoned in the brain when not directly imbibing them?

They're produced by various glands/organs; however if you're asking what directs the production/amount of chemicals under various circumstances, as far as I know that's still a murky area for research. Perhaps most notably for depression - (does depression cause the release of certain chemicals, or is it a result of certain chemicals already present in the brain?).

However, this still falls under the realm of chemicals relating to behavior of the brain and doesn't provide any grounds for inserting the notion of a "soul".

Eating magic mushrooms and tripping balls is not an explanation for the normal processes of a brain that is not under the influence!

It is proof that the human consciousness is dependent on chemical interactions.

In fact you explain the exact problem with chemicals/impulses.  If chemicals are deciding everything for me...don't blame me, blame my chemicals.  My chemicals lord over me and I just follow orders.  I was the victim of my chemicals!

False dichotomy: your brain (and it various chemicals/impulses) is what produces your notion of yourself.

Causality between neurochemistry and consciousness has never been proven. The mind is not phenominal therefore, the results of alterations in neurochemistry are entirely subjective. Experimentation on nonempirical "objects" is not science.

Interzone / Re: Nature and anti-art
« on: December 20, 2013, 08:03:51 AM »
The chart is the graphed form of the golden ratio.

Metal / Re: Imposition - Memento Mori (DM.org user composition)
« on: December 20, 2013, 07:58:34 AM »
The music felt like a 3 am stroll through a heavily urbanized slum surrounded by contorting drug fiends. You can take that how you wish.

Metal / Re: So, there is black 'n' roll too, eh?
« on: December 18, 2013, 07:34:13 AM »
Every way you can imagine. Personally I am waiting for black rap metal. Minor tremolo hip hop melodies is the shit baby, dat new Kanye has potential.

Roundabouts 3-4 years ago a guy approached me asking if I wanted to do a black metal cover of Wu Tang's C.R.E.A.M. I never did, but looking back on it now, that isn't the worst idea in comparison to the crap that could be. At least WuTang had some balls behind it. Not so much can be said from wigger shit.

The trouble today with people: The mouth don't stop

There's an older one yakity-yackin'
Their credit cards let them shop

There's a younger one gums keep flappin'
Will the jawbone never stop?

There's an ugly one who needs screwin'
Never in your life no not me!

Interzone / Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
« on: December 16, 2013, 10:36:12 AM »
I was just making a point about the ontological significance of 3. You're right about the Pentad, however I still believe that man is a composite entity primarily represented by 3 insofar as identity is concerned.

4 is the empirical existence of animated matter and 5 is life, the balance.

I can't remember the details, need to hit the books.

Interzone / Re: Which is the Soul, Exists??
« on: December 16, 2013, 08:19:29 AM »
Anyway, if I were to explain the soul, I would go with Plato and say it is the charioteer that drives and controls the horses and the chariot.  It is the aspect of man that is not at the mercy of physical concerns or impulses, it is the very ability to make a decision one way as opposed to the other.

This idea has been out of style for some time. It similar enough to the "homunculus theory". Unfortunately it leads to an infinite regress; if a little man in my mind is deciding everything for me, then what is deciding everything for the little man? Another little man? Who decides for him?

The idea has pragmatic value if you apply it to human cognition.

Alright. I think I can see it either way. After all, we do seem to be living in a universe where infinity is not impossible. Maybe an infinite regress is actually not that absurd of an idea after all, when considering cognition.

Is that what you're saying?

The way I understand it, a good portion of our mathematical models only work with infinity.

Though to answer your question, infinite regress is just a glitch in our thinking pertaining to causality.

Please explain both statements. What mathematical models specifically only work with infinity? Generally, mathematicians and physicists consider a formula useless if it returns infinity at any time. That is a sign that their input is incorrect somewhere. I just finished up a book in which this was discussed a lot, actually (The Shape of Inner Space by Shing-Tung Yau, solid read and any layman without deep knowledge of math or physics [like myself] can get something out of it).

As far as the second statement; you're saying that an infinite regress is just the way one could think of the infinity of variations and physical configurations that occur as time passes? Care to explain how it relates to causality?

Necroslaughter : Could be I was drawing parallels out of line. Nevertheless I would say what Wild already said; to consider some part of "you" a chariot, another part horses, and yet another part the charioteer, is indeed a false dichotomy. If "you" remove any one of those parts, where would "you" be and what would have happened to "you"? And is any one of those parts on their own "you"?

(1) I was recalling, albeit poorly, a conversation I had with a friend who is way more into mathematics than I am. I'll have to ask next time I see him, I could be fucked to recall the details right now

(2) Infinite regress is, in my opinion, just an expression of the limitations of our mental faculties. Causalities an easy example of this limitation because it leads us looking for this, under that, which is under this, that was generated by that, who created it after being created by something else and so on. One way out, ontologically, is the Monad.

(3) With regards to the human, it is like anything else, there are 3 in everything. 3 phases of the moon, 3 faculties of man, on and on. Iamblichus considered the Triad to be perfectly balanced. The Greeks had a special Isoceles triangle which, when graphed, would turn out to match, point for point, the golden ratio, when drawn on the same graph. Mathematically, the proportions of this triangle are supposed to be a case of super symmetry. I don't know what that means exactly, but the point is, you can find this principles of 3 everywhere.

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