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Messages - Vigilance

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Interzone / Re: We, the people
« on: September 24, 2013, 06:21:45 AM »
It's an excuse to make noise, to feel self important. The people want the trappings of power, they do not want actual power. Actual power means responsibility, with that comes consequences. Can't have those. No sir.

Interzone / Re: Modernist Distortion
« on: September 24, 2013, 06:18:49 AM »
I constantly hear about Obama's landslide victory in relation to the will of the voting bloc. Yet, I remember that the popular vote was actually about 2 percent shy of a 50/50 split. I know they are using the electoral college outcome to make the claim. Which further obfuscates the truth considering if you live in a place like CA, your vote doesn't count unless you want a democrat.

Metal / Re: Sludge Metal
« on: September 18, 2013, 08:53:55 PM »
Everyone praises eyehategod up and down. I don't get it. They sound like a faux intense Black Sabbath imitator with annoying vocals. I must be too shallow and pedantic to "get" it.

Interzone / Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
« on: September 13, 2013, 11:27:18 AM »
I think the overman is misunderstood: it is describing something simple: A man who is a full expression of his values.

Which is the highest state any human could strive for.

Other interpretations are useless to humanity.

Interzone / Re: An avian definition of Nihilism.
« on: September 13, 2013, 10:34:48 AM »
De Sade is a good example of the character behind the revolution. Not so much for the disgusting life he led, but for the fact that he was condemned to hiding and prison only until after glorious revolution where he goes from deviant aristocrat to statesman!

Interzone / Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
« on: September 13, 2013, 08:51:34 AM »
Stoicism probably applies more to the folk here than "active" Nihilism. I prefer the term stoic for myself if I must choose

Human beings can only control  their actions and their assessments; they cannot directly know abolute truth. The only thing that matters in life is recognising the good and acting in accordance with it. All in all, a radical affirmation of what reality actually is, is the goal. That in and of itself requires all the same work as active Nihilism without the angst ridden connotations
 and denial of objective good.

Interzone / Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
« on: September 10, 2013, 01:19:15 PM »
Things which are of value are the most radiant. It's easy to find them in relation to other things. Since all things are defined by their differences, hierarchies are the perfect identifiers of quality.

Everything exists for a reason. What that reason is, is less important than the fact that it exists for a reason.

A king is more valuable(possessing of more worth) than his subjects because the faculties he must possess(quality) are rare in relation to his subjects. Society in relation to itself must place value on king and subject out of principle as it could not function without both fulfilling their respective tasks. The value of a king is determined in relation to those that came before him, the outcome of his leadership, and the fiber of his character. The subject is the same yet his value is determined not only in relation to other subjects, but to amount of kingliness he exudes.

From a religious perspective, the value of a king is also determined by the amount of Godliness he exudes. All things of value aim towards the higher and God is that at which all things aim.

Interzone / Re: Spiritualism
« on: September 10, 2013, 11:14:05 AM »
Impossible to answer given that this is speculation based on a state of being which we do not embody. Biblically I can only assume it would mean something analagous to the relationship of men to women. Guiding the material and subjective(feminine) to the metaphysical and objective(masculine).

Interzone / Re: Spiritualism
« on: September 10, 2013, 09:38:35 AM »
I tend to agree with what's already been said: Christianity isn't to blame for the errors of people - people are to blame for making excuses, such as blaming religion for what's really their own faults and imperfections.

That seems pretty convenient - and it could be applied to any ideology...in fact, it's one I hear commies trot out in order to defend the history of the Soviet Union. :)

I look at the Bible like this: It's the word of God, meaning it's vessel for whatever sort of truth you have within yourself. To some, it's a book of lies and deceit. To others, it has great meaning and beauty. But you can't really say that it is purely one or the other.

I've tried to understand what you mean here and I can't. But then again, I never try to seek spiritual fulfillment through a book...seeing a summer field swaying in the wind is closer to "God" than anything I've ever read.

I see that some people derive meaning from these monotheistic books and I don't understand why: it seems that people such as yourself already have an understanding of the eternal to begin with and you project that into the books. I don't see what they add.

You have to take this portion in context with the rest of the book. We have dominion because we are instructed to act as shepards.  This is not a failure of the Bible, it is a failure of the human.

I suspect animals get on just fine without us.

If we did our duty, there might actually be a chance to elevate the animals. We'll probably never know the answer to that.

Interzone / Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
« on: September 09, 2013, 03:58:14 PM »
I interpreted the assertion that value does not exist outside of the brain of biological organism as meaning value is unreal. My mistake.

My argument was essentially that value is an observed property which is not like love in that it is not something felt. One is able to feel a certain way towards something deemed valuable, but that is distinctly different than observing quality.

In keeping with your analogy, I understand value to be like a stomach. If it did not exist innately, then we would not be able to observe and experience it. A mental construct is just a totem; but totems do occasionally represent the real and the tangible. It takes intelligence to recognize anything, so of course, the only things to ascribe value to other things will be the things with intelligence. Something stellar bodies do not posses. In so far as we know.

Interzone / Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
« on: September 09, 2013, 03:14:48 PM »
Why are cognitive constructs unreal? Love is something which is actually experienced. Conversely, equality is imagined, yet never experienced, actually, thus can be concluded as decisively unreal. If value is intrinsic to the survival of an organism, then it is experienced and it is real.

Interzone / Re: Unintentional metaphors for modernity
« on: September 09, 2013, 02:43:53 PM »
The human is just one of many vessels by which life experiences itself. The fact that there is any impetus to find value at all is evidence enough that value is an innate property. Value is recognized by observing hierarchies. That which is closest to its own essence is the most beautiful instance.

Interzone / Re: Spiritualism
« on: September 09, 2013, 02:21:32 PM »
Animal testing is always done in the name of 'progress', on way or the other.

If humanity as such was really interested in life, I don't think we would spend so much energy trying to escape it's dark sides, disease, death etc. We would instead give them meaning.

That being said, I am grateful for some medicine, even though I am very rarely ill. But our species as such overdoes it to the extreme.

I think the widespread animal testing is a symptom of a bad collective attitude.

How do you feel about the bible's take on this? Genesis 26 says "Then God said, 'Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'"

Do you think this verse influences our bad collective attitude against animals and nature in general, and why most western people don't give a thought to animal testing? I don't mean to sound antagonistic here. I know you're a Christian, and you seem much smarter than most Christians I've ever met. I'm genuinely curious about what you think about that.

You have to take this portion in context with the rest of the book. We have dominion because we are instructed to act as shepards.  This is not a failure of the Bible, it is a failure of the human.

Even trees kill each other in their race toward the heavens.

Do they? Do you imagine it is deliberate?
I see it as one tree losing the race for sunlight, while the other wins.
Not quite the same as killing each other.

 I don't imagine it is intentional but I don't speak for them, only my own observations.

I struggle more and more with terms as I age. What rings in my head when people talk about killing are all those soundbytes of hapless victims shouting "cant you see you're killing us!" Implying killing is done indirectly, unintentionally and often in complete ignorance of a victim.

You're probably right though and I'm engaging in semantics.

Wasn't the last century the most humans have (yet) killed each other?

Yes. I think killing is innate rather than instinctual. Even trees kill each other in their race toward the heavens.

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