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Messages - Jim Necroslaughter

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721
Interzone / Re: Metal and Romanticism
« on: August 30, 2009, 03:27:39 PM »
BLAKE:

How do you know but every bird that cuts the airy way, is an immense world of delight, closed by your senses five?

The roaring of lions, the howling of wolves, the raging of the stormy sea, and the destructive sword, are portions of eternity, too great for the eye of man.

BURZUM:

Other planes lie beyond the reach of normal sense and common roads.  But they are no less real than what we see or touch or feel.
Denied by the blind church these are not the words of God, the same God that burnt the knowing

722
Interzone / Re: Metal and Romanticism
« on: August 29, 2009, 05:49:52 PM »
Quote
“Blake’s work is thus an unprecedented and confounding critique of the very cornerstones of Judeo-Christian civilization: the Word and the Law. Evil is traditionally represented as a turning away from the one or the other – from Satan’s non servatim to the eating of the “forbidden fruit”, but here the Word and the Law are literally presented as manacles closing away the boundless possibility of the universe to the dull prison of the senses and the holy books. Science and religion cease to be opposing forces in Blake’s understanding, instead becoming obstacles to true knowledge – one by binding sight in the laws of the material universe, the other by binding thought in the words of the holy books. In this sense, the only possible “Good” as far as Blake is concerned, is the rebellion of sight – growing to see multiple possibilities through ecstatic vision. For Blake this probably meant mystical and artistic gnosis, but intellectually it can be applied to all kinds of pluralist, multilateral thinking, if not to literal “mind-expansion”.
-Daniil Leiderman

that is awesome!  I would add something, but it is simply perfect as is.

I think metal has thoroughly transcended the "words of the holy books."  less so the "laws of the material universe," however.

723
Metal / Re: Sacramentum question.
« on: August 24, 2009, 05:34:20 PM »
I think one of the guys is in a band called Runemagick?  never heard them, though.

724
Interzone / Re: Religion?
« on: August 24, 2009, 05:29:30 PM »
...remember The King...

someone asked a while back (either in this thread or that other religion thread that kind of got derailed):  why do we need the God-concept, at all?  To me, the usefulness of the God CONCEPT is that it completes the grand hierarchy of the universe.  otherwise, what is at the top?  it is good for man to have to submit to something, ultimately.  The God concept represents a perspective beyond all perspectives.  If you want to call this "nature," I'm good with that, but "God" seems even more vast.  just musing.

725
Interzone / Re: Religion?
« on: August 18, 2009, 08:44:47 PM »
I'm done with the "we hate x" people. They're always looking for something to blame. The situation is, in contrast, quite simple: there are good people and bad people. Evil is not a mystical force, but a tendency toward selfish oblivion and hatred of life. Find those who hate life and kill them; find those who love life and want to make it better, and put them in charge. That's how you become the next great empire and make life more fun.

this is what it all boils down to for me.  reverential or resentful?

726
Interzone / Re: Write a metal review for ANUS?
« on: August 14, 2009, 11:02:14 PM »
What I don't understand is why people read nihilism and then think that anything matters, that there is any sort of greater cause or purpose: social order, eugenics, totalitarianism.

The older I get and the more I learn about the world, the more I think that the only thing that matters is getting stoned down by the river.  And maybe chicks.

what you are describing is defeatism or fatalism, not nihilism.

727
Interzone / Re: Romanticism: opposed to science?
« on: August 11, 2009, 04:15:42 PM »
Here is a story about William Blake that always summed it up for me:

Thomas Taylor gave Blake, the artist, some lessons in mathematics and & got as far as the 5th proposition which proves that two angles at the base of an isosceles triangle must be equal.  Taylor was going through the demonstration, but was interrupted by Blake, exclaiming "ah never mind that - what's the use of going to prove it.  Why I see with my eyes that it is so, & do not require any proof to make it clearer."
Could you possibly elaborate on the point you're trying to get at? 
Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a dick either, I'm not sure that I can explain it to you so that you perfectly understand it.  For me, the lesson works best as an anecdote, but that's how I understand things.  To put it as best as I can:  what matters for Blake is THAT he knows x, not HOW he knows that x is true, in other words, he BELIEVES x.  It's not that truth verification isn't important, it's just that belief in x can be justified without verifying it's truth via mathematics it can also be justified through sense perception.  At the end of the day, in order to operate within physical reality I find science and rational justification not AS necessary/important as lots of people think.  There is more than one way to operate within reality and affect a positive change.  For me, Blake puts science/math/rational justification in its proper place.

728
Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 10, 2009, 05:55:32 PM »

Quote
everyone is equal, because "Science" proves it!!!one

Except that science doesn't prove it.  You know this, so I must be missing your point.  Are you claiming that science is only what we make of it (i.e. that pseudo-science should be considered as part of science)?

Didn't Stephen Jay Gould try to imply this with "The Mismeasure of Man," though?  I don't want to say he made hard conclusions, but I definitley remember that the gist was, essentially, science proves we are more equal or similar than we thought.

729
Interzone / Re: Romanticism: opposed to science?
« on: August 10, 2009, 05:27:14 PM »
Here is a story about William Blake that always summed it up for me:

Thomas Taylor gave Blake, the artist, some lessons in mathematics and & got as far as the 5th proposition which proves that two angles at the base of an isosceles triangle must be equal.  Taylor was going through the demonstration, but was interrupted by Blake, exclaiming "ah never mind that - what's the use of going to prove it.  Why I see with my eyes that it is so, & do not require any proof to make it clearer."

730
Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 10, 2009, 02:41:24 AM »
A better question is, why indoctrinate people at all in something that isn't true?

RedReign the humanist, looking out for people.  We wouldn't want to lie to people, would we.  You critique religion like Bill Maher.

731
Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 06, 2009, 02:58:46 PM »
to stay true to the original post, the basis of this discussion would have to be about the everyman's religion, in the mainstream world; the "opiate of the masses."

you're right.  one thing I noticed, and I'm pretty sure Nietzsche mentions something along these same lines, is that in the New Testament (which I would consider the everyman religion in today's America), God, THE FATHER, is hardly even there.  It's all about Jesus, the son.  I'm not sure where to go from here, but basically, that always struck me as odd and, personally, unsettling.  I was a huge fan of the Greek myths as a very young kid (and still am), and maybe that's the explanation, but I always associated more strongly with God IN THE SKY.  It kind of degrades God to have to become a human.

let's not forget that in america, kids in public school are taught that creationism is a scientific theory of equal value to evolution, or that people will believe that a political candidate is the Antichrist, or that some support our military backing of Israel in anticipation of the Apocalypse, or that some parents will deny their children necessary medical procedures to stay in line with their religious beliefs.  you can have your symbols and your metaphysics, but this is the american religion i'm familiar with.

Is this REALLY the norm, though?  despite what it might look like from what I said in this thread, I am an anti-christian, I don't believe, literally, in God, I don't believe in Heaven, I don't believe in sin, so I'm not trying to defend Christianity, here, but in Wisconsin/Upper Midwest this just doesn't seem like the norm, to me.  not even close, in fact - we laugh at shit like that.  I'm not denying it's out there, and whether it's the norm or not, it's STILL a problem, I agree with you there, but I don't think this is the religion of the everyman.

732
Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 05, 2009, 03:32:54 PM »
If the fear of God no longer holds us back, what will?

A MAJOR catastrophe?  Preferably not a natural disaster - that way we can definitively "blame ourselves."  Or a combo natural disaster and "man made disaster."  After the disaster we need some "vehicle" to transmit the lessons learned - stories, myths, art, culture, philosophy. 

Maybe that's not the best WAY, but basically, the world needs to be mysterious and terrifying, again, on some level.

733
Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 03, 2009, 08:59:10 PM »
you are cherry-picking and straw-maning me left and right.  you only needed Ted Haggard to make your point.  spinning one's wheels has nothing to do with true/false.  health is the goal, remember?  not truth.  I don't care HOW you get to health, just get there.  being "irrational" has its place and is actually important to health.  if a person was devoid of emotion, they wouldn't be PERFECTLY RATIONAL, they would be PATHOLOGICALLY INDECISIVE - wheelspinning.  I'm not defending relgion, rather, I'm attacking science, truth, evidence, and being rational.  Here is what I value:  the immune system, resisting gravity, forgetting.

734
Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 03, 2009, 08:13:09 PM »
Quote from: Istaros
Religion's here to stay, folks. You don't have to like it, but it's not going away.

Actually, amazingly, this is not the case.  Fewer young people-- drastically fewer-- call themselves religious or spiritual than ever before.


to their detriment, certainly.  let's see where those young people are 5 to 10 years from now.  plenty of them will be born again types, guaranteed, they will overcompensate as usual.  the rest will contiue to twist in the wind.
Quote from: Jim Necroslaughter
Science only shows us HOW, not WHY.  Maybe there are some tough guys out there who claim they don't need a WHY, but I guarantee that long-term, big picture, for humanity, in general, WE NEED A "WHY."

You mean you need a made-up fairy tale for how the earth formed.  Religion doesn't actually provide a why.  It provides a social control agenda cloaked in childish fables.

Looks to me like there isn't a why.  If that's the case, what you need is a lie.
We don't need a why for HOW THE EARTH WAS FORMED, we don't need a why as an EXPLANATION, we need a why that provides us with a goal greater than ourslelves - why should we get up everyday?  why should we work hard?  why should we strive for stong MORAL character?  We need a why because we need a DIRECTION, we need something to aim FOR.  Otherwise we are spinning our wheels.  Religion may or may not provide a why depending on the individual, I know that science certainly can't.  If you value greatness and genius, then life needs to be more than just survival.  Yep, we need a "lie" of sorts.  That's what I'm saying.  I'm not even going to try to bullshit you.  WE NEED A LIE.  "The lie is a condition of life."  - Nietzsche.

735
Interzone / Re: Religion in Modern America
« on: August 03, 2009, 07:27:47 PM »
Religion's here to stay, folks. You don't have to like it, but it's not going away. It's nice to know facts about the world, for which science is great, but facts without context are meaningless. Knowing the difference in the distances to the sun at the apogee and perigee of the earth's orbit doesn't provide the bearer of that knowledge with a purpose to use that knowledge towards. The universe is meaningless - religion is a method of imbuing it with a meaning.

That's right.  Science only shows us HOW, not WHY.  Maybe there are some tough guys out there who claim they don't need a WHY, but I guarantee that long-term, big picture, for humanity, in general, WE NEED A "WHY."  It doesn't necessarily have to be "religious" in nature or imply the existence of a God, but we need a WHY, and science can't give it to us.  As Nietzsche said, if we have our WHY, we will take almost any HOW.

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