A separate thread for the discussion that started here on the importance of image in music. Some excerpts:

Image is an integral part of metal. Seeing music and image as two separate things that can stand on their own is what started the decline of metal in the first place. Can you imagine the music of Burzum, Darkthrone or Morbid Angel being as powerful without the image those bands employed?

I understand that image has an importance, but all too often people around here get hung up on JUST the image of a band. I mean there is no set image for a band to have to make profound music.

Image doesn't make a band.

The point is that each release is a whole thing. Music, ideas, imagery and lyrics... all part of the art object.

I would love to get rid of album covers and song titles. It would get rid of posers, the bullshit and allow us to focus on the music. Symphony No. 1, Opus 29, Song 112 - what could be simpler than that? Let the music stand on its own: I say the less imagery given through non-musical media, the better position we are to judge the music and eliminate music with no ideas.

1.music
2.lyrics
3.cover art
4.actual views and personality of musician
5.press shoots/band image

Whilst you can take all these as one artistic product, it is possible to rank them in order of importance.

I agree with we hope you die and Conservationist. But I believe actual views and personality of musicians belongs on 2, after all if a band sings about stuff or has an image they're not serious about in one way or another then you'll probably lose a great deal of respect for them. I don't agree that it's possible to make great music while being a clueless dick, great minds produce great music, mediocre minds produce the lesser works. I can't think of any great album of which the cover sucks unless it's a re-release.

Some suggest that it is in the benefit of music that we ignore possible lame image/covers/lyrics/etc. but I'll ask of you isn't that how the decline in quality starts? Others say that while they enjoy the music of certain artists they also feel the image or personality are laughable. I'll ask of you why you can't enjoy the whole package and whether or not you may be suffering from some form of consumerism.

I think it's related to recognizing something as great or important contrasting with what has personal appeal, but that's what I think makes this topic so interesting. Music is the product of the personality of the artists and the image and emotions the band wants to project, so how is it even possible to believe the music is great while thinking their image is stupid?

Look at Graveland, where Rob Darken looks silly most of the time. Excellent band. Now take a band like Xasthur. Neat looking image, what with the paint and nooses, but one of the shittiest bands around today.

Gonna have to disagree with that


This is a faggot. Notice he's hanging forward a like a wimp or a loser, trying to crawl back into that fetal position he enjoys so much every night? What the hell is that background, was this photo shot at his grandmother's house? Oh the noose is terribly intimidating, really. It just seems to be hanging a little too low to actually be effective but hey it had to be in the shot to get that depressive vibe going I guess. And what is he holding in his hands? Is that his magic wand or a medieval sex toy? I can't see the corpsepaint very well because his head is hanging down, he probably strained his neck while giving a fanatic blowjob to some lucky dude.



This is a warrior. With one foot stepping on you in defiance. The sword held ready and eyes that show no mercy announce your fate. The blurry trees in the background symbolize the disappearing world in contrast with the clear reality which you must face. You can laugh at his exotic armory but by the looks of it he will consider it nothing more than the nervous ramblings of someone about to die.

Image is an integral part of metal. Seeing music and image as two separate things that can stand on their own is what started the decline of metal in the first place. Can you imagine the music of Burzum, Darkthrone or Morbid Angel being as powerful without the image those bands employed? Bands without an image generally have nothing to say and are hiding extremely dull and weak personalities.

Bands that have nothing new to say are just whoring for attention and acceptance, like kids in a museum trying to plaster their drawings next to the greats in the hope no one will notice the difference. I think that's what born for banning meant.

Alien Crucifixion
Insane technical death/cybergrind. Obscure band, not on M-A for lacking a physical release but you can buy an mp3 version of their album from itunes or amazon. A bit of a jokeband, the members claim to have been abducted by aliens themselves, but they fit the bill I guess.

Also Darkthrone!

I don't know if you have heard of this place. It's somewhere in Haikou. A village only with people with short statures. Pay the entrance fee and you can watch these people perform.

When I first heard this I pictured myself obscure freak shows from a hundred years back. I ended up having a fight with my Chinese family about it. Let me quote what my mother in law said

"They can't work anywhere, they are disabled people, so we have a village for them to live and be happy in. No one would hire a dwarf. In China we have villages like this for all kinds of people, like fat people, disabled people. This way they can get a steady income every month since people come and see them perform."

I really didn't know what to say to this... I for one thought it was completely outrageous that anyone with some kind of disability can't get a job. Then again women who has children can't get jobs either. I might have a "bad China day" but after 3 years in China, China keeps on surprising me with completely insane ways of dealing with "problems".

What do you guys think? Is this kind of place completely outrageous and inhumane or should we beleive the Chinese propaganda saying that "They are happy like never before inside this compund"

http://www.gokunming.com/en/forums/thread/1836/kingdom_of_the_dwarfs

What do the anus forums think? Personally I think it's a damn good solution.

I am open to the idea of eugenics. I think in all honesty every sensible human is open to the concept except religious fanatics. Just look at the possibilities science offers people and how people welcome them. Doctors are now able to foresee many deficits during and even before pregnancy and it should come as no surprise that most parents do want healthy children. The ability to foresee problems and terminate pregnancy at an early stage is advancing, you can also get your sperm checked etc. As long as abortion is legal the human race will (slowly) progress in the right direction there.

Of course this process could be sped up if some dictator came to power and forced people to have abortions, be sterilized and whatever you can imagine. But are you willing to simply hand that power over to someone? If you are then you deserve to be cut from the population yourself as far as I'm concerned. Seeing as you're willing to sacrifice whatever freedom you have over your own life for a mere promise of a better future, you probably would be a very dumb and insecure creature.

You want this for yourself and your children? Then do it yourself, don't hope for a strong leader who will make these decisions for you. All that power could so easily be used for completely different ends. Can you think of any living politician right now that you would trust with a task like this? I can't, hence my stance on this. I think it's better to grow a strong family tree and hope to positively influence human kind. Improve the world by improving yourself and don't let losers get you down.

Also with regards to global pollution I think this plan would only work if every nation on earth started doing it. Since that will never happen I fear the simple application of this concept (round people up and shoot them) would never work. You'd even risk getting into a civil war and your country would be weakened and easily overtaken by outside forces (most likely UN in this case)

I'd rather support more positive solutions to getting a better society, even if they take longer and are more frustrating. The death penalty for the worst criminals and the corrupt officials is something I advocate outside of the eugenics issue.

Anyway, I thought this was a troll thread?

Inspired by this thread but I couldn't bring myself to posting this pic there. So this gets its own thread.

Here ya go bud.