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Messages - Eleison

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Metal / Re: I like O.p.e.t.h.
« on: October 21, 2009, 03:16:13 AM »
My point is that it's pretty much impossible even to objectively define what music is

Nonsense. Music is objectively defined as organized sound.

Not really, unless you consider speech music.  Anyway, all sound has an underlying structure.  I don't buy into definitions like 'organized sound', they're far too vague.  If you really want an objective definition of music it comes down to two things, pitches organized into modes, and temporal points of attack, or meter.  These two elements basically include everything that people would normally call music from all cultures, only purely rhythmic music and modernist music would be excluded, neither of which seem like major omissions to me.   

Metal / Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
« on: October 21, 2009, 01:44:16 AM »
I have another question: Is metal objectively superior as a genre? I'm sure that metal is the best genre, but I don't think I could explain why objectively.

We can't really evaluate the quality of a genre because within every genre there will be variation in quality.  I suppose when anus.com uses the term metal broadly it refers primarily to the fundamental spiritual impulse which created metal and the bands that were true to that spirit, everything else is dead weight.

Metal / Re: Fugue in Metal
« on: October 10, 2009, 11:37:05 PM »
Exactly, metal cannot and should not 'be' classical music on a technical level.  Superficial adaptation of classical technique leads to crap like Malmsteen.  On the other hand, an understanding of the spirit of classical music in the context of metal produces albums like From Wisdom to Hate, which, despite not having the raw energy of Gorguts' previous release was a more focused and coherent effort.

Metal / Re: Fugue in Metal
« on: October 07, 2009, 05:15:21 PM »
Classical forms are pretty much exclusively classical, because their internal features are things that only occur in classical music.  The convergence of metal and classical is not related to forms, except in a very superficial way.

Metal / Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
« on: October 07, 2009, 05:12:33 PM »
Death metal is the denail of truth and value other than death, and black metal is the re-affirmation of anceint values in a modern context. On the whole this is the case. However, some black metal simply denies values, and some death metal has reached the heights of black in replacing modern values with alternatives. They are two ways of reaching the same goals.

What you have outlined here are two philosophical positions which complement eachother.  We have nihilism, which cuts away illusions, and integralism, in which values are made to conform to experience.  This is the difference bewtween first and second tier metal, not between two genres.

Metal / Re: Fugue in Metal
« on: October 07, 2009, 04:55:52 AM »
Metal doesn't directly adopt classical forms.

Metal / Re: Is Black Metal Superior to Death Metal?
« on: October 05, 2009, 05:27:51 AM »
I'm not sure there's really a dichotomy, let me explain.  Both death and black metal intend to structure sound in such a way that it directs the listener towards a state of transcendent awareness, they only differ in method.  Perhaps the black metal method is more effective, but in the final analysis I doubt that there is any reason why the technique employed by death metal cannot reach its goals, even if it hasn't done so yet.  Albums like Obscura and Nespithe at least reveal the potential of death metal to reach the level of Burzum.

Metal / Re: Acoustic Metal
« on: October 02, 2009, 04:53:57 AM »
Playing anything of acoustic guitar will make you a better guitarist.  There's no reason why you can't play metal on it.

Metal / Re: Metal Score Project
« on: October 02, 2009, 12:35:17 AM »
Demilich - The Putrefying Road in the Nineteenth Extremity (...somewhere inside the bowels of endlessness...) (for piano and drums)

There might be a balance issue with leaving the drum part in here, although any drummer worth his salt should have dynamic control

Also a warning, transcribing this for piano gave rise to multiple technical difficulties, only reasonably adept pianists will be able to play this.


Metal / Re: Spiritual Music
« on: September 30, 2009, 07:35:06 PM »
Burzum has deterred idiots? Not in these days of the internet.

Put it this way, most people who regard Hvis Lyset Tar Oss as the greatest metal album are intelligent and well balanced.

Metal / Spiritual Music
« on: September 30, 2009, 05:10:50 AM »
The way I see it there are basically two types of 'content' in a piece of music.  Firstly there are things we can quantify, pitches, rhythms, pattern based inter-relationships, we can call this intellectual content.  Secondly there are qualitative aspects, moods, colors, implied states of being, we can draw a correlation between these things and quantitative elements, but they are not identical. 

Modernist classical music fails because all composers care about is intellectual content, it is obvious to anybody with the ability to process information, so it impresses people of linear intelligence, it's all about appearances.

Some music I have come across, Hvis Lyset Tar Oss being the prime example, attempts to completely strip away any unnecessary intellectual content to clearly outline the fundamental idea which drives the music.  Any intellectual content emerges as a consequence of a spiritual impulse.  Hence we might only find two or three musical ideas in a piece, but a subtle qualitative shift creates a journey of metaphysical significance.  This is what I call spiritual music.

This kind of thinking also emerges in religious minimalist music and ambient music, although not with the same degree of success as the best black metal.  Theoretically music can incorporate both intellectual and spiritual content, see classical music and later Gorguts, but in my opinion in the age in which we live, where appearances dominate reality, it may be best to avoid unnecessary complications in order to deter foolish listeners.  Burzum has for the most part successfully deterred idiots, whereas Obscura and Beethoven will continue to attract them, unfortunate but true.

Metal / Re: Future of metal: change or obsolescence
« on: September 30, 2009, 03:58:18 AM »
The quote isn't quite to the point, the problem is not stylistic purity (which can produce good results), but writing music based purely on stylistic considerations.  I think everyone here realizes this because they are just as willing to criticize cosmopolitan neo-metal bands as they are pure&tr00 to tha old skool black metal, provided the band has no real musical quality.

I think what we should take away from this is that every metal composer should have at least a basic knowledge of the history of metal in terms of technique and idea.  Not so they can create a new cosmopolitan meta-style, but so they are aware of the continuity of the tradition that they are working within and (hopefully) expanding.

Metal / Re: Guillaume de Machaut - Messe de Nostre Dame
« on: September 29, 2009, 12:45:09 AM »
Great piece, and of great historical importance.  I would advise you not to give up on plainchant though, if you pay attention to it closely enough you'll realize it's one of the most metal forms of music in history.

Metal / Re: Metal and classical convergence
« on: September 29, 2009, 12:41:25 AM »
In terms of musical theory metal and classical are completely different, metal theory is closer to early music in terms of style, mode etc.  On a more subtle level we can observe similarities in the construction of metal songs and classical pieces, not so much in terms of structure (ABA ind of crap) but in the inter-relationships between ideas manifested as themes.  I think classical theory leaves a lot to be desired in terms of its range of expression, it certainly falls short of early music and eastern music in this regard, so metal really has the best of both worlds.

Metal / Re: Metal Score Project
« on: September 27, 2009, 04:09:00 AM »
Just a suggestion for getting it out there: why not upload these to YouTube instead of megaupload - with whatever kind of video accompaniment you feel would be appropriate?

When I have time to book a studio and record a few of these properly I will, but I'm not letting people make judgments based on midis.  The files on megaupload are sheet music only, no sound.

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