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Topics - indjaseemun

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Metal / Autechre
« on: June 09, 2012, 06:50:42 AM »
Anyone else into this band? I discovered it in ANUS way back, and they still are putting out good music.



Interzone / The dimmu borgir song
« on: May 18, 2012, 12:22:28 PM »
I'm very interested in this. In what it means. I know it is a joke, but I want to get in the author's mind: What is the meaning of the joke? Why associate dimmu borgir with anal sex, or any of the other people who were associated with that here (steve jobs, metallica)?


Does it simply mean that the act of anal sex is a symbol for the kind of sex those people represent as opposed to the more glorious heterosexual sex?

Interzone / Notes on The Politics and Ideology of Hate
« on: April 11, 2012, 03:36:57 PM »
Excellent articles by David Myatt:




This is the opposite of ONA material, and david myatt on purpose says some stuff that I found unrealistic, like that to think we are in decay or with lots of problems is an illusion, but it is just to make a point.

Interzone / Drugs
« on: April 11, 2012, 10:56:42 AM »
I know there already was a lot of discussion about this, but what the hell...

How many of you use it, which ones, and why? Which ones have you tried but stopped?

And remember: It's not worth it.

Interzone / The Anus and other symbologies
« on: April 11, 2012, 10:41:17 AM »
I read a book called Prometheus Rising in which the author explains the system of Timothy Leary for the human individual.

The first stage is the oral-dependant, where there is a fixation with things oral, receiving food, and being attached to momma.

Now the second stage, anal, was considered territorial, aggressive (or submissive, if the person finds someone who scares them). It is very interesting, first in an intuitional level that captured me and had that quality of truth to it. Then I considered people who accidentally fart when around other people. Well, maybe it was because the person was old, but farting sure is used also to offend people on purpose. Feces is also used to mark territory. Well, dogs mark theirs with urine, but I think feces may have a territorial meaning for a lot of species, specially those who throw them like monkeys. That's good to show there is more to stuff sometimes than we realize: Even to a dog urine is not just urine, it is a way to mark territory. And if you try to mark you territory with urine yourself, and you happen to have a lot of feces stored, when you make force to expel the urine you will shit. A cat hides his feces. People say the anus contracts when they get scared (but I don't remember this happening to me). Some people shit when scared.

The idea of associating anus-feces with territorialism strikes me as very true. The author goes on to show, in the english language, how the territorial and domination language is anal. Examples:

"Get your ass over here now."

"I'm gonna whoop yo ass, boy."

"Up yours."

"You're full of it [shit]."

"What is this shit that you've done, you little shit?"

"I want to get in the shit (war)" [i've seen this in a movie]

He even says that monkeys that learned sign language called each other shits.

This relationship of power-anus is also found here:


The anus "chakra" is the red one, meaning power, it is like the primal fire from which comes the energy to life and power. You can feel it if you want, there is heat flowing up from the anus, but the heat is, I think, more concentrated upward, in the genitals. Genitals are a great place to warm our hands. There is also an upside-down triangle on the picture representing the feces coming down to earth.

Now Freud, from wikipedia:

This is the second stage of Freud's psychosexual stages. This stage represents a conflict with the id, ego, and superego. The child is approached with this conflict with the parent's demands. A successful completion of this stage depends on how the parents interact with the child while toilet training. If a parent praises the child and gives rewards for using the toilet properly and at the right time then the child will successfully go through the stage. However, if a parent ridicules and punishes a child while he or she is at this stage, the child can respond in negative ways. The child can respond to the harsh demands by refusing to use the toilet or by excreting maliciously. This behavior from a child can lead to an anal expulsive character. A child who has not successfully completed this behavior will become an adult who has an anally expulsive character. His or her personality will be characterized as disorganization, messiness, recklessness, carelessness, and defiance. If the child's tactics are overindulged, then he or she can form an anal retentive character as an adult. The anal retentive character is the opposite of an anally expulsive character. This child will find pleasure in withholding faeces in the body.

This is very interesting. Lord knows our relationships with our anuses and defecation is... weird, at least in some times of life.


There are also some other symbols that appear in language: Everybody is always "fucking somebody", in a deal, or whatever. If a person uses too much the resources of another he is "cumming with someone else's dick". If you depend too much on a person you're "sucking his dick". If you are mad at a person, "eat my cock". If you're courageous you have "scrotum" (balls). I remember the scene in the movie Bonfire of Vanities when a guy offers Sherman a deal, and tries to convince him with the following line: "Is that a great blowjob, or what?". If something goes wrong, "we're fucked". There are countless examples.

I mean, what is this? We live by our anuses, by our cocks.


Very interesting also is bi-sexuality latent in society. I do not fall for this "It is just a mode of expression that due to habit is now used, but it doesn't mean anything". Yeah, right. You're saying that the fact that men, on a daily basis, use sexual slurs on each other, implying that : One sucks off the dick of the other. One sodomizes the other. Among others, does not mean anything? It just happened to be that the words are sexual, but it is only a joke? Monkeys bend over to be fucked by other male monkeys. When this type of domination by sexuality is marginalized, it becomes known in those expressions.

And they use those expressions both seriously and jokingly: You do not want to take jokingly a strong guy that says "I'm gonna whoop your ass!". When you see a strong pissed off guy saying that, you do not think "Ha ha, the guy is just playing with homosexual concepts, because we are heterosexual, we make jokes about this." Maybe the guy is not going to fuck your ass, but he is probably going to beat you.

If two guys use this kind of expression in joke, it can be still a form of domination, or it can be only a joke. But a joke is almost never without meaning.

Interzone / Unabomber 1971 Essay
« on: April 06, 2012, 10:28:36 AM »
In these pages it is argued that continued scientific and technical progress will inevitably result in the extinction of individual liberty. I use the word "inevitably" in the following sense: One might—possibly—imagine certain conditions of society in which liberty could coexist with technology, but these conditions do not actually exist, and we know of no way to bring them about, so that, in practice, scientific progress will result in the extinction of individual liberty. Toward the end of this essay we propose what appears to be the only thing that bears any resemblance to a practical remedy for this situation.

I hope that the reader will bear with us when I recite arguments and facts with which he may already be familiar. I make no claim to originality. I simply think that the case for the thesis stated above is convincing, and I am attempting to set forth the arguments, new and old, in as clear a manner as possible, in the hope that the reader will be persuaded to support the solution here suggested—which certainly is a very obvious solution, but rather hard for many people to swallow.

The power of society to control the individual person has recently been expanding very rapidly, and is expected to expand even more rapidly in the near future. Let us list a few of the more ominous developments as a reminder.
Propaganda and image-making techniques. In this context we must not neglect the role of movies, television and literature, which commonly are regarded either as art or as entertainment, but which often consciously adopt certain points of view and thus serve as propaganda. Even when they do not consciously adopt an explicit point of view they still serve to indoctrinate the viewer or reader with certain values. We venerate the great writers of the past, but one who considers the matter objectively must admit that modern artistic techniques have developed to the point where the more skillfully constructed movies, novels, etc. of today are, in the mind of the viewer or reader, far more psychologically potent than, say, Shakespeare ever was. The best of them are capable of gripping and involving the reader very powerfully and thus are presumably quite effective in influencing his values. Also note the increasing extent to which the average person today is "living in the movies" as the saying is. People spend a large and increasing amount of time submitting to canned entertainment rather than participating in spontaneous activities. As overcrowding and rules and regulations curtail opportunities for spontaneous activity, and as the developing techniques of entertainment make the canned product ever more attractive, we can assume that people will live more and more in the world of mass entertainment.
A growing emphasis among educators on "guiding" the child's emotional development, coupled with an increasingly scientific attitude toward education. Of course, educators have always in some degree attempted to mold the attitudes of their pupils, but formerly they achieved only a limited degree of success, simply because their methods were unscientific. Educational psychology is changing this.
Operant conditioning, after the manner of B.F. Skinner and friends. (Of course, this cannot be entirely separated from item (2)).
Direct physical control of the emotions via electrodes and "chemitrodes" inserted in the brain. (See Jose M.R. Delgado's book "Physical Control of the Mind.")
Biofeedback training, after the manner of Joseph Kamiya and others.
Predicted "memory pills" or other drugs designed to improve memory or increase intelligence.

(The reader possibly assumes that items (5) and (6) present no danger to freedom because their use is supposed to be voluntary, but I will argue that point later. See page 1-15.)
Predicted genetic engineering, eugenics, related techniques.
Marvin Minsky of MIT (one of the foremost computer experts in the country) and other computer scientists predict that within fifteen years or possibly much less there will be superhuman computers with intellectual capacities far beyond anything of which humans are capable. It is to be emphasized that these computers will not merely perform so-called "mechanical" operations; they will be capable of creative thought. Many people are incredulous at the idea of a creative computer, but let it be remembered that (unless one resorts to supernatural explanations of human thought) the human brain itself is an electro-chemical computer, operating according to the laws of physics and chemistry. Furthermore, the men who have predicted these computers are not crackpots but first-class scientists. It is difficult to say in advance just how much power these computers will put into the hands of what is vulgarly termed the establishment, but this power will probably be very great. Bear in mind that these computers will be wholly under the control of the scientific, bureaucratic, and business elite. The average person will have no access to them. Unlike the human brain, computers are more or less unrestricted as to size (and, more important, there is no restriction on the number of computers that can be linked together over a long distance to form a single brain), so that there is no restriction on their memories or on the amount of information they can assimilate and correlate. Computers are not subject to fatigue, daydreaming, or emotional problems. They work at fantastic speed. Given that a computer can duplicate the functions of the human brain, it seems clear in view of the advantages listed above that no human brain could possibly compete with such a computer in any field of endeavor.
Various electronic devices for surveillance. These are being used. For example, according to newspaper reports, the police of New York City have recently instituted a system of 24-hour television surveillance over certain problem areas of the city.

These are some of the more strikingly [illegible] facets of scientific progress, but it is perhaps more important to look at the effect of technology as a whole on our society. Technological progress is the basic cause of the continual increase in the number of rules and regulations. This is because many of our technological devices are more powerful and therefore more potentially destructive than the more primitive devices they replace (e.g. compare autos and horses) and also because the increasing complexity of the system makes necessary a more delicate coordination of its parts. Moreover, many devices of functional importance (e.g. electronic computers, television broadcasting equipment, jet planes) cannot be owned by the average person because of their size and costliness. These devices are controlled by large organizations such as corporations and governments are used to further the purposes of the establishment. A larger and larger proportion of the individual's environment—not only his physical environment, but such factors as the kind of work he does, the nature of his entertainment, etc. comes to be created and controlled by large organizations rather than by the individual himself. And this is a necessary consequence of technological progress, because to allow technology to be exploited in an unregulated, unorganized way would result in disaster.

Note that the problem here is not simply to make sure that technology is used only for good purposes. In fact, we can be reasonably certain that the powers which technology is putting into the hands of the establishment will be used to promote good and eliminate evil. These powers will be so great that within a few decades virtually all evil will have been eliminated. But, of course, "good" and "evil" here mean good and evil as interpreted by the social mainstream. In other words, technology will enable the social mainstream to impose its values universally. This will not come about through the machinations of power-hungry scoundrels, but through the efforts of socially responsible people who sincerely want to do good and who sincerely believe in freedom—[illegible] but whose concept of freedom will be shaped by their own values, which will not necessarily be the same as your values or my values.

The most important aspect of this process will perhaps be the education of children, so let us use education as an example to illustrate the way the process works. Children will be taught—by methods which will become increasingly effective as educational psychology develops—to be creative, inquiring, appreciative of the arts and sciences, interested in their studies—perhaps they will even be taught nonconformity. But of course this will not be merely random nonconformity but "creative" nonconformity. Creative nonconformity simply means nonconformity that is directed toward socially desirable ends. For example, children may be taught (in the name of freedom) to liberate themselves from irrational prejudices of their elders, "irrational prejudices" being those values which are not conducive to the kind of society that most educators choose to regard as healthy. Children will be educated to be racially unbiased, to abhor violence, to fit into society without excessive conflict. By a series of small steps—each of which will be regarded not as a step toward behavioral engineering but as an improvement in educational technique—this system will become so effective that hardly any child will turn out to be other than what the educators desire. The educational system will then have become a form of psychological compulsion. The means employed in this "education" will be expanded to include methods which we currently would consider disgusting, but since these methods will be introduced in a series of small steps, most people will not object—especially since children trained to take a "scientific" or "rational" attitude toward education will be growing up to replace their elders as they die off.

For instance, chemical and electrical manipulation of the brain will at first be used only on children considered to be insane, or at least severely disturbed. As people become accustomed to such practices, they will come to be used on children who are only moderately disturbed. Now, whatever is on the furthest fringes of the abnormal generally comes to be regarded with abhorrence. As the more severe forms of disturbances are eliminated, the less severe forms will come to constitute the outer fringe: they will thus be regarded as abhorrent and hence as fair game for chemical and electrical manipulation. Eventually, all forms of disturbance will be eliminated—and anything that brings an individual into conflict with his society will make him unhappy and therefore will be a disturbance. Note that this whole process does not presuppose any antilibertarian philosophy on the part of educators or psychologists, but only a desire to do their jobs more effectively.

Consider: Today, how can one argue against sex education? Sex education is designed not simply to present children with the bald facts of sex, it is designed to guide children to a healthy attitude toward sex. And who can argue against that? Think of all the misery suffered as a result of Victorian repressions, sexual perversions, frigidity, unwanted pregnancies, and venereal disease. If much of this can be eliminated by instilling "healthy" (as the social mainstream interprets that word) sexual attitudes in children, who can deny it to them? But it will be equally impossible to argue against any of the other steps that will eventually lead to the complete engineering of the human personality. Each step will be equally humanitarian in its goals.

There is no distinct line between "guidance" or "influence" and manipulation. When a technique of influence becomes so effective that is achieves its desired effect in nearly every case, then it is no longer influence but compulsion. Thus influence evolves into compulsion as science improves technique.

Research has shown that exposure to television violence makes the viewer more prone to violence himself. The very existence of this knowledge makes it a foregone conclusion that restrictions will eventually be placed on television violence, either by the government or by the TV industry itself, in order to make children less prone to develop violent personalities. This is an element of manipulation. It may be that you feel an end to television violence is desirable and that the degree of manipulation involved is insignificant. (Indeed, it is impossible to argue against an end to television violence.) But science will reveal, one at a time, a hundred other factors in entertainment that have a "desirable" or "undesirable" effect on personality. In the case of each one of these factors, knowledge will make manipulation inevitable. When the whole array of factors has become known, we will have drifted into large-scale manipulation. In this way, research leads automatically to calculated indoctrination.

By way of a further example, let us consider genetic engineering. This will not come into use as a result of a conscious decision by the majority of people to introduce genetic engineering. It will begin with certain "progressive" parents who will voluntarily avail themselves of genetic engineering opportunities in order to eliminate the risk of certain gross physical defects in their offspring. Later, this engineering will be extended to include elimination of mental defects and treatment which will predispose the child to somewhat higher intelligence. (Note that the question of what constitutes a mental "defect" is a value-judgement. Is homosexuality, for example, a defect? Some homosexuals would say "no." But there is no objectively true or false answer to such a question.) As methods are improved to the point where the minority of parents who use genetic engineering are producing noticeably healthier, smarter offspring, more and more parents will want genetic engineering. When the majority of children are genetically engineered, even those parents who might otherwise be antagonistic toward genetic engineering will feel obliged to use it so that their children will be able to compete in a world of superior people—superior, at least relative to the social milieu in which they live. In the end, genetic engineering will be made compulsory because it will be regarded as cruel and irresponsible for a few eccentric parents to produce inferior offspring by refusing to use it. Bear in mind that this engineering will involve mental as well as physical characteristics: indeed, as scientists explain mental traits on the basis of physiology, neurology, and biochemistry, it will become more and more difficult to distinguish between "mental" and "physical" traits.

Observe that once a society based on psychological, genetic, and other forms of human engineering has come into being, it will presumably last forever, because people will all be engineered to favor human engineering and the totally collective society, so that they will never become dissatisfied with this kind of society. Furthermore, once human engineering, the linking of human minds with computers, and other things of that nature have come into extensive use, people will probably be altered so much that it will no longer be possible for them to exist as independent beings, either physically or psychologically. Indeed, technology has already made it impossible for us to live as physically independent beings, for the skills which enabled primitive man to live off the country have been lost. We can survive only by acting as components of a huge machine which provides for our physical needs: and as technology invades the domain of mind, it is safe to assume that human beings will become as dependent psychologically on technology as they now are physically. We can see the beginning of this already in the inability of some people to avoid boredom without television, in the need of others to use tranquilizers in order to cope with the tensions of modern society.

The foregoing predictions are supported by the opinions of at least some responsible writers. See especially Jacques Ellul's The Technological Society and the section titled "Social Controls" in Kahn and Wiener's The Year 2,000.

Now we come to the question: What can be done to prevent all this? Let us first consider the solution sketched by Perry London in his book Behavior Control. This solution makes a convenient example because its defects are typical of other proposed solutions. London's idea is, briefly, this: Let us not attempt to interfere with the development of behavioral technology, but let us all try to be as aware of and as knowledgeable about this technology as we can: let us not keep this technology in the hands of a scientific elite, but disseminate it among the population at large: people can then use this technology to manipulate themselves and protect themselves from manipulation by others. However, on the grounds that "there must be some limits" London advocates that behavior control should be imposed by society in certain areas. For example, he suggests that people should be made to abhor violence and that psychological means should be used to make businessmen stop destroying the forests. (NOTE: I do not currently have access to a copy of London's book, and so I have had to rely on memory in describing his views. My memory is probably correct here, but in order to be honest I should admit the possibility of error.)

My first objection to London's scheme is a personal one. I simply find the sphere of freedom that he favors too narrow for me to accept. But his solution suffers from other flaws.

He proposes to use psychological controls where they are not necessary, and more for the purpose of gratifying the liberal intellectual's esthetic sensibilities than because of a practical need. It is true that "there must be some limits"—on violence, for example—but the threat of imprisonment seems to be an adequate limitation. To read about violence is frightening, but violent crime is not a significant cause of mortality in comparison to other causes. Far more people are killed in automobile accidents than through violent crime. Would London also advocate psychological elimination of those personalities that are inclined to careless driving? The fact that liberal intellectuals and many others get far more excited over violence than they do over careless driving would seem to indicate that their antagonism toward violence arises not primarily from a concern for human life but from a strong emotional antipathy toward violence itself. Thus it appears that London's proposal to eliminate violence through psychological control results not from practical necessity but from a desire on London's part to engineer some of his own values into the public at large. This becomes even clearer when we consider London's willingness to use psychological engineering to stop businessmen from destroying forests. Obviously, psychological engineering cannot accomplish this until the establishment can be persuaded to carry out the appropriate progress of engineering. But if the establishment can be persuaded to do this, then they can equally well be persuaded to pass conservation laws strict enough to accomplish the same purpose. And if such laws are passed, the psychological engineering is superfluous. It seems clear that here, again, London is attracted to psychological engineering simply because he would like to see the general public share certain of his values.

When London proposes to us systematic psychological controls over certain aspects of the personality, with the intention that these controls shall not be extended to others areas, he is assuming that the generation following his own will agree with his judgment as to how far the psychological controls should reach. This assumption is almost certainly false. The introduction of psychological controls in some areas (which London approves) will set the stage for the later introduction of controls in other areas (which London would not approve), because it will change the culture in such a way as to make people more receptive to the concept of psychological controls. As long as any behavior is permitted which is not in the best interests of the collective social organization, there will always be the temptation to eliminate the worst of this behavior through human engineering. People will introduce new controls to eliminate only the worst of this behavior, without intending that any further extension of the controls should take place afterward; but in fact they will be indirectly causing further extensions of the controls because whenever new controls are introduced, the public, as it becomes used to the controls, will change its conception of what constitutes an appropriate degree of control. In other words, whatever the amount of control to which people have become accustomed, they will regard that amount as right and good and they will regard a little further extension of control as negligible price to pay for the elimination of some form of behavior that they find shocking.

London regards the wide dissemination of behavioral technology among the public as a means by which the people can protect themselves against psychological manipulation by the established powers. But if it is really true that people can use this knowledge to avoid manipulation in most areas, why won't they also be able to use it to avoid being made to abhor violence, or to avoid control in other areas where London thinks they should be controlled? London seems to assume that people will be unable to avoid control in just those areas where he thinks they should be controlled, but that they will be able to avoid control in just those areas where he thinks they should not be controlled.

London refers to "awareness" ([illegible] relating to the mind) as the individual's "sword and buckle" against manipulation by the establishment. In Roman times a man might have a real sword and buckle just as good as those of the emperor's legionaries, but that did not enable him to escape oppression. Similarly, if a man of the future has a complete knowledge of behavioral psychology it will not enable him to escape psychological control any more than the possession of a machine-gun or a tank would enable him to escape physical control. The resources of an organized society are just too great for any individual to resist no matter how much he knows.

With the vast expansion of knowledge in the behavioral sciences, biochemistry, cybernetics, physiology, genetics, and other disciplines which have the potential to affect human behavior, it is probably already impossible (and, if not, it will soon become impossible) for any individual to keep abreast of it all. In any case, we would all have to become, to some degree, specialists in behavior control in order to maintain London's "awareness." What about those people who just don't happen to be attracted to that kind of science, or to any science? It would be agony for them to have to spend long hours studying behavioral technology in order to maintain their freedom.

Even if London's scheme of freedom through "awareness" were feasible, it could, or at least would, be carried out only by an elite of intellectuals, businessmen, etc. Can you imagine the members of uneducated minority groups, or, for that matter, the average middle-class person, having the will and the ability to learn enough to compete in a world of psychological manipulation? It will be a case of the smart and the powerful getting more powerful while the stupid and the weak get (relatively) stupider and weaker; for it is the smart and the powerful who will have the readiest access to behavioral technology and the greatest ability to use it effectively.

This is one reason why devices for improving one's mental or psychological capabilities (e.g. biofeedback training, memory pills, linking of human minds with computers) are dangerous to freedom even though their use is voluntary. For example, it will not be physically possible for everyone to have his own full-scale computer in his basement to which he can link his brain. The best computer facilities will be reserved for those whom society judges most worthy: government officials, scientists, etc. Thus the already powerful will be made more powerful.

Also, the use of such mind-augmentation devices will not remain voluntary. All our modern conveniences were originally introduced as optional benefits which one could take or leave as one chose. However, as a result of the introduction of these benefits, society changed its structure in such a way that the use of modern conveniences is now compulsory: for it would be physically impossible to live in modern society without extensively using devices provided by technology. Similarly, the use of mind-augmenting devices, though nominally voluntary, will become in practice compulsory. When these devices have reached a high development and have come into wide use, a person refusing to use them would be putting himself in the position of a dumb animal in a world of supermen. He would simply be unable to function in a society structured around the assumption that most people have vastly augmented mental abilities.

By virtue of their very power, the devices for augmenting or modifying the human mind and personality will have to be governed by extensive rules and regulations. As the human mind comes to be more and more an artifact created by means of such devices, these rules and regulations will come to be rules and regulations governing the structure of the human mind.

An important point: London does not even consider the question of human engineering in infancy (let alone genetic engineering before conception). A two-year-old obviously would not be able to apply London's philosophy of "awareness"; yet it would not be [im]possible [illegible] in the future to engineer a young child so that he will grow up to have the type of personality that is desired by whoever has charge of him. What is the meaning of freedom for a person whose entire personality has been planned and created by someone else?

London's solution suffers from another flaw that is of particular importance because it is shared by all libertarian solutions to the technology problem that have ever come to my attention. The problem is supposed to be solved by propounding and popularizing a certain libertarian philosophy. This approach is unlikely to achieve anything. Our liberty is not deteriorating as a result of any antilibertarian philosophy. Most people in this country profess to believe in freedom. Our liberty is deteriorating as a result of the way people do their jobs and behave on a day-to-day basis in relation to technology. The system has come to be set up in such a way that it is usually comfortable to do that which strengthens the organization. When a person in a position of responsibility sets to eliminate that which is contrary to established values, he is rewarded with the esteem of his fellows and in other ways. Police officials who introduce new surveillance devices, educators who introduce more advanced techniques for molding children, do not do so through disrespect for freedom; they do so because they are rewarded with the approval of other police officials or educators and also because they get an inward satisfaction from having accomplished their assigned tasks not only competently, but creatively. A hands-off approach toward the child's personality would be best from the point of view of freedom, but this approach will not be taken because the most intelligent and capable educators crave the satisfaction of doing their work creatively. They want to do more with the child, not less. The greatest reward that a person gets from furthering the ends of the organization may well be simply the opportunity for purposeful, challenging, important activity—an opportunity that is otherwise hard to come by in society. For example, Marvin Minsky does not work on computers because he is antagonistic to freedom, but because he loves the intellectual challenge. Probably he believes in freedom, but since he is a computer specialist he manages to persuade himself that computers will tend to liberate man.

The main point here is that the danger to freedom is caused by the way people work and behave on a day-to-day basis in relation to technology; and the way people behave in relation to technology is determined by powerful social and psychological forces. To oppose these forces a comparatively weak force like a body of philosophy is simply hopeless. You may persuade the public to accept your philosophy, but most people will not significantly change [illegible] result. They will invent rationalizations to reconcile their behavior with the philosophy, or they will say that what they do as individuals is too insignificant to change the course of events, or they will simply confess themselves too weak to live up to the philosophy. Conceivably a school of philosophy might change a culture over a long period of time if the social forces tending in the opposite direction were weak. But the social forces guiding the present development of our society are obviously strong, and we have very little time left—another three decades likely will take us past the point of no return.

Thus a philosophy will be ineffective unless that philosophy is accompanied by a program of concrete action of a type which does not ask people to voluntarily change the way they live and work—a program which demands little effort or willpower on the part of most people. Such a program would probably have to be a political or legislative one. A philosophy is not likely to make people change their daily behavior, but it might (with luck) induce them to vote for politicians who support a certain program. Casting a vote requires only a casual commitment, not a strenuous application of willpower. So we are left with the question: What kind of legislative program would have a chance of saving freedom?

I can think of only two possibilities that are halfway plausible. The discussion of one of these I will leave until later. The other, and the one that I advocate, is this: In simple terms, stop scientific progress by withdrawing all major sources of research funds. In more details, begin by withdrawing all or most federal aid to research. If an abrupt withdrawal would cause economic problems, then phase it out [illegible] practical. Next, pass legislation to limit or phase out research support by educational institutions which accept public funds. Finally, one would hope to pass legislation prohibiting all large corporations and other large organizations from supporting scientific research. Of course, it would be necessary to eventually bring about similar changes throughout the world, but, being Americans, we must start with the United States; which is just as well, since the United States is the world's most technologically advanced country. As for economic or other disruption that might be caused by the elimination of scientific progress—this disruption is likely to be much less than that which would be caused by the extremely rapid changes brought on by science itself.

I admit that, in view of the firmly entrenched position of Big Science, it is unlikely that such a legislative program could be enacted. However, I think there is at least some chance that such a program could be put through in stages over a period of years, if one or more active organizations were formed to make the public aware of the probable consequences of continued scientific progress and to push for the appropriate legislation. Even if there is only a small chance of success, I think that chance is worth working for, since the alternative appears to be the loss of all human freedom.

This solution is bound to be attacked as "simplistic," but this ignores the fundamental question, namely: Is there any better solution or indeed any other solution at all? My personal opinion is that there is no other solution. However, let us not be dogmatic, Maybe there is a better solution. But the point is this: If there is such a solution, no one at present seems to know just what it is. Matters have progressed to the point where we can no longer afford to sit around just waiting for something to turn up. By stopping scientific progress now, or at any rate slowing it drastically, we could attempt to work out another solution, if one is possible.

There is one putative solution the discussion of which I have reserved until now. One might consider enacting some kind of bill of rights designed to protect freedom from technological encroachment. For the following reasons I do not believe that such a solution would be effective.

In the first place, a document which attempted to define our sphere of freedom in a few simple principles would either be too weak to afford real protection, or too strong to be compatible with the functioning of the present society. Thus, a suitable bill of rights would have to be excessively complex, and full of exceptions, qualifications, and delicate compromises. Such a bill would be subject to repeated amendments for the sake of social expedience; and where formal amendment is inconvenient, the document would simply be reinterpreted. Recent decisions of the Supreme Court, whether one approves of them or not, show how much the import of a document can be altered through reinterpretations. Our present Bill of Rights would have been ineffective if there had been in America strong social forces acting against freedom of speech, freedom of worship, etc. Compare what is happening to the right to bear arms, which currently runs counter to basic social trends. Whether you approve or disapprove of that "right" is beside the point—the point is that the constitutional guarantee cannot stand indefinitely against powerful social forces.

If you are an advocate of the bill-of-rights approach to the technology problem, test yourself by attempting to write a sample section on, say, genetic engineering. Just how will you define the term "genetic engineering" and how will you draw the line, in words, between that engineering which is to be permitted and that which is to be prohibited? Your law will be readily reinterpreted as social standards evolve, or excessively complex and detailed. In this last case, the law will not pass as a constitutional amendment, because for practical reasons a law that attempts to deal with such a problem in great detail will have to be relatively easy to change as needs and circumstances change. But then, of course, the law will be changed continually for the sake of social expedience and so will not serve as a barrier to the erosion of freedom.

And who would actually work out the details of such a bill of rights? Undoubtedly, a committee of congressmen, or a commission appointed by the president, or some other group of organization men. They would give us some fine libertarian rhetoric, but they would be unwilling to pay the price of real, substantial freedom—they would not write a bill that would sacrifice any significant amount of the organization's power.

I have said that a bill of rights would not be able to stand for long against the pressures for science, progress, and improvement. But laws that bring a halt to scientific research would be quite different in this respect. The prestige of science would be broken. With the financial basis gone, few young people would find it practical to enter scientific careers. After, say three decades or so, our society would have ceased to be progress-oriented and the most dangerous of the pressures that currently threaten our freedom would have relaxed. A bill of rights would not bring about this relaxation.

This, by the way, is one reason why the elimination of research merely in a few sensitive areas would be inadequate. As long as science is a large and going concern, there will be the persistent temptation to apply it in new areas; but this pressure would be broken if science were reduced to a minor role.

Let us try to summarize the role of technology in relation to freedom. The principal effect of technology is to increase the power of society collectively. Now, there is a more or less unlimited number of value-judgments that lie before us: for example: whether an individual should or should not have puritanical attitudes toward sex; whether it is better to have rain fall at night or during the day. When society acquires power over such a situation, generally a preponderance of the social forces look upon one or the other of the alternatives as Right. These social forces are then able to use the machinery of society to impose their choice universally, for example, they may mold children so successfully that none ever grows up to have puritanical attitudes toward sex, or they may use weather engineering to guarantee that the rain falls only at night. In this way there is a continual narrowing of the possibilities that exist in the world. The eventual result will be a world in which there is only one system of values. The only way out seems to be to halt the ceaseless extension of society's power.

I propose that you join me and a few other people to whom I am writing in an attempt to found an organization dedicated to stopping federal aid to scientific research. I realize that you will probably reject this suggestion, but I hope that you will not reject it on the basis of some vague dogma such as "knowledge is good." [passage may be missing] Okay, knowledge is good, but how high a price, in terms of freedom, are we going to pay for knowledge? You may be understandably reluctant to join an organization about which you know nothing, but you know as much about it as I do. It hasn't been started yet. You would be one of the founding members. I claim to have no particular qualifications for trying to start such an organization, and I have no idea how to go about it, I am only making an attempt because no better qualified person has yet done so. I am simply trying to bring together a few highly intelligent and thoughtful people who would be willing to take over the task. I would prefer to drop out of it personally because I am unsuited to that kind of work: in fact I dislike it intensely.


The solution to this is what Varg Vikernes proposed in his article Civilisation. Keep technological advancement in the hands of a few and away from the public. Come to think about it, a small village with cannabis for the only mental technology apart form toilets, not tv, and the basics, like farm life, is way happier than any society 300 years from now with super technology, I bet. The stoner gets to smoke, the alcoholics drink, people go to farms, see the light, the stars, feel the atmosphere, etc... Now in a future scenario, with sinister mind-numbing social technology and increased control and thought-police, not to mention the destruction of the environment that will be associated more with isolated areas that one visits on weekends, not to mention the inevitable decline of popular cultura dictated by that mental technology to even lower standarts than it is today, it is a very weak scenario, not worth it like it would be a simpler life. Can it be possible that technological advancement is inferior to just realization of what nature is, that individual's "point of gravity", and for it to be considered on a more cosmic scale it should be developed only after society is more structured in terms of honesty and not start giving out every technology to the public like we do now, instead creating a system of conformity with the idea that the unlimited widespread use of technology for the masses, when considered the increasing possibilities and enforced mind control talked about in the article, is dangerous and should be avoided.

I don't know about you, but the idea of a society playing with mental manipulation in physical ways, pointing the "will" of people into certain directions and programming all that in laboratory from birth, transforming the human being into a cyber-collective computer machine, is too hellish and freaky.

Interzone / Georgia Guidestones
« on: April 05, 2012, 08:05:58 AM »
The Georgia Guidestones is a large granite monument in Elbert County, Georgia, USA. A message comprising ten guides is inscribed on the structure in eight modern languages, and a shorter message is inscribed at the top of the structure in four ancient languages' scripts: Babylonian, Classical Greek, Sanskrit, and Egyptian hieroglyphs.

In June 1979, an unknown person or persons under the pseudonym R. C. Christian hired Elberton Granite Finishing Company to build the structure.[2]


A message consisting of a set of ten guidelines or principles is engraved on the Georgia Guidestones in eight different languages, one language on each face of the four large upright stones. Moving clockwise around the structure from due north, these languages are: English, Spanish, Swahili, Hindi, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, and Russian.
Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.
Unite humanity with a living new language.
Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.
Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
Balance personal rights with social duties.
Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.

Metal / Just Now started to appreciate dla reviews
« on: April 04, 2012, 06:38:40 AM »
After all these years, just now I'm starting to get what all the DLA reviews are all about. Before, I frankly did not care for the reviews because I never understood them. I read them when I started to know the websites, but then I never came back again.

But now I'm starting to make sense of some of them, specially of albums I enjoyed, like Rotting Christ's Thy Mighty Contract.

I'm also starting to "dig" classical music but very slowly, and understand what the writer means by neoclassical music and romantic spirit in kraftwerk music.

It pays off, really to understand these things, as I was always curious, but I guess music appreciation matures with age. The more you get your stuff right, the more the music seems right.

I also very much like the idea of black/death metal as an escape from the karmic cycle.

But I gotta say, it all seems a little blurred still and dependent on personal experience and taste.

Interzone / What is the meaning of life?
« on: February 12, 2012, 09:34:45 AM »
If you say it is reproduction, you're saying that the meaning of something is to make more of it.

Interzone / Neanderthals and our extra-terrestrial origins
« on: January 30, 2012, 04:53:54 PM »
I came across this article many days ago by geologist Rober M. Schoch about the work of Stan Gooch, basically what he says is that the neanderthals were a intuitive, magical culture of dreams and that cro-magnons were more rational and male-oriented, and that they mixed (apparently the guy said that before it was proved that we have neanderthal dna), causing a very divided psychology in humans:



Looks a little like that funny monk Salvatore on the film The Name Of The Rose. He was very intuitive too.

Now I read this interesting interview with Varg:

When I was reading your website, I was fascinated by the teenage games/fights you had in forest, with clubs, spears etc. It seemed like you longed for the past, of nobler time perhaps, where people fought battles to defend their beloved lands. Please tell me more about this longing.

My brilliant wife has studied this subject for some time, and has found many very interesting answers. Apparently the longing is very European, and she thinks we have this longing because we were better in the past. The flawed theory of evolution tells us differently, of course, but if you look at the first art known from the Chauvet cave in France some 35.000 years old, it was exceptional compared to the art of f. ex. the early middle ages. The older the art we find is, the better it is.

Before Chauvet they didn't even need art, because their minds were so superior. They didn't need to record the beauty of our world; they managed to process all impressions properly just by looking at it. They could f. ex. like a modern day autistic savant just take a look at the sky and memorize the positions of all the stars.

We long for this time, because we still have this fantastic neanderthal DNA in us (seen today as blonde hair, blue or gray eyes and white skin), and just like you can feel phantom pains in a lost finger, we feel phantom pains in our severed minds, that were broken by the mixing of homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis beginning perhaps some 40.000 years ago. This despair causes us to produce art and to do weird things, in an attempt to artificially create the harmony that we no longer are able to experience.

Alas! All that has been lost due to race mixing... and we keep doing it, digging our own grave in the process.

Also, from another lost, forgotten, sad interview:

Writers like Tolkien actually never "made up" anything, they just wrote stories based on memories from the past (memories from the blood)! Not necessarily from our world, our planet, but from the last planet we lived on (in the system of Sirius), when we were Gods.

Interzone / Charles Manson: Innocent?
« on: January 30, 2012, 02:57:45 PM »
Writer and practicioner of "left-hand path" or "sinister way" Nikolas Shcreck wrote a book years ago called the Manson File with some facts trying to prove Manson was not what the media made him out to be and that the Helter Skelter story was a total myth.

Now very recently he released an uptaded version of the book, the Apocalypse Edition, with over 900 pages with new facts.

You can read interviews with him about Manson on his website: http://nikolasschreck.eu . There are some other interesting interviews there too. I always thought Manson had ordered the murder of a pregnant woman - I think I was wrong.

(I never say maybe - things happened one way only. You can't say "maybe it happened this way, maybe it didn't)

Interzone / Why deconstruct evil?
« on: January 22, 2012, 10:24:29 AM »
Why deconstruct evil?

If you are unhappy with the word evil, why don't you take the next step and deconstruct the word "chair", or something?

What's the point? Only evil deserves to be deconstructed because only children adhere to concepts of good and evil?

If someone comes and say "I think the concept of degenerate sex should be re-evalued... It should not address inserting banana up my male ass while I sodomize a dog. That's christian morality"

What I mean is there is some interest behind the deconstruction.

I go so far as to state that the struggle between good and evil defines our whole human existence.

The only difference is not that good and evil does not exist for some, there are two things:

1. The conceptions of good and evil change from person to person or group

2. Some people alternate between different models of good and evil, in fact all do (for example, in times of great pressure it can change) but the psychopatic do not have a standart good/evil model, but they always do have one (hardly you will see a psychopath accepting to be maimed - that would be evil for him? Unless he/she gets sexually aroused or something - in that case the excitement would be good).

The only people who trasncend that shit are the ones who transcended a lot more. I mean, why should the person who transcended good & evil be the one torturing innocents? Does that mean he has transcended?

Good and evil may not exist... but im from the path where to transcend that, you get first knee-deep in the good and evil shit until you bypass it.... and then there's death.

Interzone / Anti-Dualism
« on: January 03, 2012, 01:50:37 PM »
First of all I admit not knowing exactly what I'm talking about but I'm talking about what I could pick up.

One of the biggest contributions this site did to me was the no-dualism or no supernatural-bullshit. That does not mean I do not believe in the paranormal - it means I don't believe in happy flying poneys that make all OK (that make all OK - not that I don't believe in happy shiny poneys - they may exist in the astral world).

I admit I have a tendency to phantasize, to imagine too much and to dream - that is weakness of a kind sometimes.

The dualism I accept is that I think, probably, and I don't believe in probably - people get too much caught in opinions like "maybe and probably" and sometimes do not realize there is no such thing as maybe - either something is true or is not true. Well, the dualism I think is probably true is that there is a non-physical (that is - non explainable with the current physics) part of existence of the mind that has been called by some the Akashic Field.

But ANUS always said: If there is some other world or realm or whatever, it operates in relation to this one. That does not necessairily mean that this that you are perceiving now is "the highest", but it means that fantasy is where it belongs: In the realm of the unreal. That does not mean that somethings that are considered phantasy can not be real. It means that we have to ACCEPT reality - Reality - What Happens.

What I got from this non-dualism is this: Not of your bullshit is real. None of your ego-phantasiez. None of your shit. The fact that there is a brutal physical reality does not undermime your spirituality: It just makes it brutal.

People get BLIND all the time. That is fucked up. That is, tough, only bad if you have attachment, because if you were an extreme buddhist you would not attach yourself to vision. That is, all of our problems are created by ourselves - not really that we decided it, but by our stubbornes (born stubborn) we created it - by our sttuborn ways of believing what our parents told us - if you believe you're entitled to vision, you will work out and be a God - 99,09% of the time - the other 0,01% are gonna have to deal with blindness - but then, you always have the astral or dream world, where you don't necessairliry need your vision - or do you? But it's hard to adapt - attachment.

The only thing I have not figured out is extreme torture - can that be solved with some sort of non-attachment - or - is - the- world just wicked?

Interzone / Nothingness after death - As uncertain as afterlife
« on: December 18, 2011, 10:01:57 AM »
I see some people saying that when you die, it's all over, and nothing remains, literally nothing. I find this as devoid of reason as saying there is heaven or other afterlife.

"Realistic" people may try to convince me that whe I die there will be "nothing", total destruction. But what is the base for that claim? Absolutely none. The person who feels smater than christians or other people for believing he is going to be totally vanished and nothing will exist after that is as deluded as anyone. Let's analyze:

1. Have they ever died? Then how come they know what it's like?

2. If they claim that it is because all brain activity will cease, then have they ever experienced this nothingness they talk about? If not, how can they claim that it exists? This is as speculative as assuming the existence of God. No one that I know of has ever experienced nothing. There is always something everywhere. It contradicts the laws of physics. So where the hell did they get this nothingness from?

3. If they say that they have actually experienced nothingness, and that it was the state before they were born, then how do they know how it was like then, if they were not even born yet? If they know what nothing feels like because they were not born, I can know what the big bang or the first human being making fire was like, because I was not born in that time too. Seems unrealistical? Then why the nothingness assumption seems realistical? Because they cannot remember what it was like before being born? I can not remember what is was like being 1 month old, or being in the uterus (and they say babies dream there). Does that mean there was nothingness there too? Why should the fact that there is no memory before we were born account for nothingness before and after life, if the fact that there is no memory of early stages of consciousness does not?

To resume: No one has ever seen this "nothing", it is a concept created by humans with as much evidence as any god or afterlife. Anyone that thinks they are smater for facing the terrible abyss of blackness that is death and not delude themselves with afterlife does so out of their imagination alone.


Metal / All Styles of Electronic Music in Flash Presentation
« on: December 10, 2011, 09:41:29 AM »
This is the greatest website on electronic music. It covers all styles and sub-divisions of electronic music that exist, with explanations and samples, in a flash presentation.



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