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Messages - death metal black metal

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Metal / Re: Thrash metal
« on: November 28, 2004, 08:57:56 AM »
If you do not accept the validity of the term "Thrash" you will end up with having alot of bands that can't be classified as any existing genre.

From my perspective, you are the one denying the validity of the term "thrash" by trying to apply it to an already-categorized metal genre.

It is a crossover genre, and nothing like it exists; it isn't hardcore and it isn't metalcore and it isn't grindcore, but its own entity.

The term "thrash" for speed metal (or heavy metal or hybrid speed/death like Kreator and Destruction) was invented by heavy metal magazines for the purpose of selling albums.

Pick your loyalty: historical accuracy, or $$$

Metal / Re: Heidenlarm (and thoughts on a new e-zine)
« on: November 27, 2004, 10:07:59 AM »
Centralization of discussion on Heidenlarm issues:


Main question: what should a post-Heidenlarm zine be like?

Metal / Re: Thrash metal
« on: November 25, 2004, 08:13:23 PM »
Wikipedia is not a serious resource, sorry. See the GNAA page debacle for proof of that.

I will end this debate with a single question: what did the verb to thrash originally mean?

Metal / Re: Thrash metal
« on: November 25, 2004, 01:13:49 PM »
How could bands like COC and DRI who were late comers in the 80s movement, and influenced by pre-existing thrash bands, who were originally playing hardcore(not thrash at first, that came later) after the term thrash was being used to describe bands like Overkill and Slayer, be the only ones called thrash...

 All those are good examples thrash/crossover. As in Hardcore that was crossing over into thrash, a genre of metal that already existed. Most of those bands didn't even get started till the 83 and 84(by then Overkill, Metallica, Exodus, Slayer, Metal Church, Bathory, etc had albums or demos out), and most had a purely hardcore era before listening to Metallica, Exodus and Slayer and the rest and thinking "ya know, musically this stuff is related to what we play anyway, and has more balls then pure hardcore, lets fucking THRASH IT OUT"  

Very simply: your facts are wrong.

DRIs first works were 1982, and COC was of similar vintage. This was all inspired by Discharge in the same year, which is why 1983-1985 was such a potent time: hardcore finally produced something which fused easily with metal.

Back then, punk wasn't as metal as it is now, so to punk ears DRI sounded like metal :)

Further, "thrash" as a term was used before the music came around, to describe the culture from which this music originated. (You can find lyrical hints to that culture on the first DRI album.)

At the time, most people who were the types to later get into underground metal REFUSED to refer to speed metal as thrash for that reason. The magazines got ahold of it, and thus Metallica et al became called "thrash." Eventually, this morphed into "thrash metal" for the keyword happy.

However, originally thrash and speed metal were quite different, often antagonistic, genres.

Metal / Re: Thrash metal
« on: November 25, 2004, 12:06:14 PM »
Speed metal was like NWOBHM pioneers just played faster without a whole lot of direct punk influence on the riffs(chugging palm mutes usually lacking- see Agent Steel for a good example) Thrash/crossover was mostly punk/hardcore with minor metal elements(DRI are a good example)

Speed metal was usually defined by the muted riffing. The other stuff I refer to as "power metal," but in the day was simply called heavy metal.

DRI, COC, Cryptic Slaughter, Dead Horse and Fearless Iranians From Hell are good examples of Thrash bands.

Metal / Re: Thrash metal
« on: November 24, 2004, 04:38:32 PM »
Arguing that thrash never really existed all of a sudden on technical grounds is kind of silly

Thrash metal never existed.

Thrash existed.

Death and black metal were terms not in common use except among the few, but were standardized enough to make it into Spin in 1991-1992 (?).

This isn't an anal-retentiveness issue for me as much as a historically correct one: to give the term "thrash" to speed metal is to slight another genre.

It's like calling Metallica "black metal."

Metal / Re: Thrash metal
« on: November 23, 2004, 05:39:07 PM »
How it happened was shockingly simple, actually: magazines, labels and radio DJs discovered that "thrash" was a more saleable term than "speed metal."

But what one poster said above is true about the divergence: thrash wasn't really metal music, but it borrowed a lot from metal - as did almost every later hardcore band. It was crossover, and it came about after HC died. Then the metal bands did the crossover thing, and took a lot of thrash - the speed, the punk breaks (see Overkill for examples), the voices - and turned it into metal music.

Kind of like the difference between an Italian and an Arab. An Arab is a Semite with some Caucasian blood (thrash); an Italian is a Caucasian with some Arab blood (speed metal).

Metal / Thrash metal
« on: November 23, 2004, 02:26:59 PM »
In my view, and historically speaking, this is a nonsense term.

Thrash music = metal/HC crossover.

Speed metal = Metallica, Destruction, Megadeth, Exodus

They are radically different genres, and both embrace leftism with the lock-step of post-hardcore punk bands.

Metal / Metal master's thesis
« on: November 20, 2004, 06:11:43 AM »
He ain't just heavy he's a masters student
13 November 2004

As Dave Snell sits on an old wooden bench, dressed in a black Marilyn Manson T-shirt, slightly unshaved and wearing dark glasses, he assures us he is not a violent thug or a weird loner.

He looks the part of a heavy metal music listener though and indeed he is.

But, the 24-year-old is also a Waikato University masters student researching why people listen to heavy metal and trying to change the perception society has of him and his peers.

"A lot of us have got into the scene (heavy metal) as a reaction to something that has happened in our lives. They may be having trouble at home or fighting oppression. It really helped me when I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease when I was 15. It was a way of venting my frustration," he said.

The Metallica fan said heavy metal also enabled people to make friendships and develop a sense of community around the music.

"It really bugs me that it comes under such criticism. Others think that people who listen to heavy metal are uneducated or bums. From my own experience people within the scene place a great deal of value on being part of that (heavy metal) group."

Dave, who would like to study for a postgraduate diploma in community psychology, has had different reactions from people about his research.

"People in the heavy metal scene are ecstatic about it, and people in the psychology department at the university are really supportive. Others outside of the university think it's a bit of a joke or look down their nose at it."

"We're stereotyped as being angry and violent, but it's just the way people interpret the lyrics. People tend to take very literal translations but you have to know about the band and when the song was written. Context plays a big part. But the more people know about the scene and understand it, the better," he said.

He hoped to complete his thesis on heavy metal next year.


Metal / Re: Immolation - Harnessing Ruin
« on: November 14, 2004, 07:52:44 AM »

Long-running New York-based death metallers IMMOLATION have set Harnessing Ruin as the title of their new album, tentatively due late March 2005. The album was recorded at Millbrook Sound Studios with Paul Orofino producing. A new video for the track "Dead to Me" is currently in the works. The band will also be performing at next year's Maryland Death Fest.

Harnessing Ruin track listing:
01. Swarm of Terror
02. Our Savior Sleeps
03. Challenge the Storm
04. Harnessing Ruin
05. Dead to Me
06. Son of Iniquity
07. My Own Enemy
08. Crown the Liar
09. At Mourning's Twilight

Metal / Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
« on: November 13, 2004, 02:35:34 PM »
Velvet Caccoon are not bad; they're also not memorable. Sometimes it's best to make great music before one attaches politics to it. It worked for Burzum.

I also have a hearty distrust for novelty instruments and stances. It's possible these guys were ELF buddies who eventually decided to make black metal; good for them, I guess. But in my view what they're really doing is adding thousands of CDs to the human landfill record.

For context, however, there have been only about five post-1998 black metal albums that have had any impact on me. The rest have recently been sold to Half Price Books at Kirby and Rice Blvd, if anyone wants them. I sure don't. Landfill.

Another way to say this: I prefer what is excellent. Mediocre is depressing. It hasn't occurred to many yet that the difference between today's black metal and that of the past is qualitative, not chronological.

Metal / Re: Atheist-Unquestionable Presence
« on: November 13, 2004, 02:31:55 PM »
I can't answer definitively, but my advice is to get the FLACs and lyrics and call it a day. I do not believe the label will be releasing any more.

Metal / Post-2000 albums
« on: November 12, 2004, 09:48:25 PM »
What are the good metal albums released after the year 2000?

Averse Sefira - Battle's Clarion
Ildjarn-Nidhogg - 2003

Low standards = low future for the genre.

Metal / Re: What does Black Metal mean to u?
« on: November 10, 2004, 07:45:28 PM »
BRITNEY SPEARS - I'm A Slave 4 U Lyrics

I know I may be young, but I've got feelings too.
And I need to do what I feel like doing.
So let me go and just listen.

All you people look at me like I'm a little girl.
Well did you ever think it be okay for me to step into this

Always saying little girl don't step into the club.
Well I'm just tryin' to find out why cause dancing's what I

Get it get it, get it get it (WHOOOA)
Get it get it, get it get it (WHOOOOOA) (Do you like it)
Get it get it, get it get it (OOOHHHH) (This feels good)

I know I may come off quiet, I may come off shy.
But I feel like talking, feel like dancing when I see this guy.

What's practical is logical. What the hell, who cares?
All I know is I'm so happy when you're dancing there.

I'm a slave for you. I cannot hold it; I cannot control it.
I'm a slave for you. I won't deny it; I'm not trying to hide it.

Baby, don't you wanna, dance upon me,
(I just wanna dance next to you)
To another time and place.
Baby, don't you wanna, dance upon me,
(Are you ready)
Leaving behind my name, my age.
(Lets go)

(Like that)
(You like it)
(Now watch me)

Get it get it, get it get it (WHOOOA)
Get it get it, get it get it (WHOOOOOA)
Get it get it, get it get it (OOOHHHH)

I really wanna dance, tonight with you.
(I just can't help myself)
I really wanna do what you want me to.
(I just feel I let myself go)

I really wanna dance, tonight with you.
(Wanna see you move)
I really wanna do what you want me to.
(Uh Uh Uh)

Baby, don't you wanna, dance upon me,
(I just wanna dance next to you)
To another time and place.
Baby, don't you wanna, dance upon me,
(Are you ready)
Leaving behind my name, my age.

I'm a slave for you. (Take that) I cannot hold it; I cannot
control it.
I'm a slave (It just feels right) for you. (It just feels good)
I won't deny it; I'm not trying to hide it. (Baby)

Get it get it, get it get it (WHOOOA)
Get it get it, get it get it (WHOOOOOA)
Get it get it, get it get it (OOOHHHH)

Get it get it, get it get it (WHOOOA)
Get it get it, get it get it (WHOOOOOA)
Get it get it, get it get it (OOOHHHH)

I'm a slave for you. (Here we go now)
I cannot hold it; I cannot control it.
I'm a slave for you. (Here we go) I won't deny it, (Yeah)
I'm not trying to hide it.

(Like that)

Metal / Re: Download Metal MP3s
« on: November 10, 2004, 03:04:54 AM »
- The Pillorian Age
- Where No Life Dwells reissue
- Sworn Allegiance

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