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Messages - Dionysius

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Metal / Re: Exotic Black Metal - BM gone too far?
« on: November 03, 2006, 05:51:55 PM »
So do you have any reviews of these other styles? Does anything seem impressive?

My intention isn't really to talk about these bands, but about black metal having become such a widespread phenomenon and it's possible effects. Those bands are just examples, I did try to pick out the most interesting, but I found a dominican darkclone aswell, just another example albeit a bit worse.

But are these exotic bands any worse than the norm? Black metal is living off the past and people are keeping it going so they have something to do, an identity. I gave up on buying new stuff a few months ago and started exploring 1970s heavy metal.

That's one of my points: there's tons of bands that somehow want our attention, but the same stuff is even coming out of Algeria. Exploring 70's metal is far more rewarding than examining today's black metal I agree, but I also wanted to discuss the possible socio-political effects of this. Is it another example of westernisation or do the cultural expressions give cause to think differently?

Metal / Re: Exotic Black Metal - BM gone too far?
« on: November 03, 2006, 05:13:00 PM »
So your suggestion is that because of the internet black metal spreads easier and is quicker to take on these forms? That's easy enough, but how do you feel about these adaptations in general?

Metal / Exotic Black Metal - BM gone too far?
« on: November 03, 2006, 04:01:28 PM »
In an attempt to discover if there are any interesting black metal bands outside the usual circles one can find the black metal phenomenon has spread out to some of the most un-norwegian places. I had a look through the metal-arkikes and picked these bands, I didn't post them here to promote them but to start a discussion on how you look at these interpretations of black metal. For instance: do you think it's cool that these bands have emerged or do you think it's symbolic for how black metal has crossed it's limits? Also: do you think it could lead to noticable new forms of metal? Or what do you think about the political and cultural circumstances? All the bands have mp3's on their site, feel free to voice your opinion of those aswell if you wish. It's not my intention to start a thread filled with links though.

Barbaros, Algeria "Berber Black Metal" You can listen to more Barbaros here
Odius, Egypt Black/death metal with Egyptian folk influences.
Aras, Iran Burzum-inspired black metal. (edit: let me rephrase that: Norwegian inspired black metal that occasionally copies Burzum)
Enemite, China Chinese dark ambient.

Metal / Re: Why did punk die?
« on: November 03, 2006, 02:58:09 AM »
I always thought the early Who and Kinks were more of the begining of punk and even the rock of the 50s is very much a reflection of what Punk was trying to return to.

I've never listened much to the Who or the Kinks, but as far as I've read they popularized the power-chord, which would give them some credit for being forerunners of a number of genre's. I personally hate the Who though so I don't think I'll ever get into their works. (I generally dislike punk too for that matter)

As far as rock in the 50's there were different styles back then aswell, most of which I am unfamiliar with. But I think if you'd go look for music in that period that matches punk you'd only find it in the shape of a song, not a whole album.

Metal / Re: Why did punk die?
« on: November 02, 2006, 07:26:29 AM »
As far as I'm concerned punk started with Iggy Pop and died with the Sex Pistols, who were a commercial creation by Malcom McLaren. After the Sex Pistols the british punk explosion occured which sprung forth many bands that are now commonly mistaken to be founders of the genre.

The word "punk" first made an appearance in music journalism in a 1970 essay, "The Punk Muse: The True Story of Protopathic Spiff Including the Lowdown on the Trouble-Making Five-Percent of America's Youth" by Nick Tosches in Fusion. He described a music that was a "visionary expiation, a cry into the abyss of one's own mordant bullshit," its "poetry is puked, not plotted." That same year, Lester Bangs wrote a novella titled Drug Punk, influenced by William Burroughs' book, Junky, in which there is a line, "Fucking punks think it's a joke. They won't think it's so funny when they're doing five twenty-nine on the island." Dave Marsh used the phrase "punk rock" in his Looney Tunes column in the May 1971 issue of Creem, the same issue that introduced the term "heavy metal" as a genre name. Marsh wrote, "Culturally perverse from birth, I decided that this insult would be better construted as a compliment, especially given the alternative to such punkist behavior, which I figured was acting like a dignified asshole." Tosches, Bangs, Marsh, Richard Meltzer, Greg Shaw and Lenny Kaye used the term to define a canon of proto-punk bands, including the Velvets, Stooges, MC5, the Modern Lovers and the New York Dolls (DeRogatis, Let It Blurt, 118-119).

taken from here

Read more and you'll find the Sex Pistols are the Cradle of Filth of punk. Why did punk die? Because many people didn't know the origins and lost focus on what it was really about. People who think punk sold out with Green Day are wrong. Why do you think the Pistols jumped on the bandwagon in that period and did a reunion? They were commercial from the start and were just fooling everyone with their "anarchist" slogans. The whole british punk-era that would define punk for eternity was based on a commercial joke. A few years afterwards most bands realized that and punk was officially declared dead. Everything that followed was an attempt at "revitalizing the corpse"

Metal / Re: Early Scandinavian metal
« on: October 30, 2006, 02:17:44 PM »
As one might assume the Satanism came from the music they listened to, but sure what attracted them to it? Some people say it's because of Norway's social climate, another theory is that the occult organisation OTO was sensationalised in the tabloids a few years before and that the stories inspired the people that later formed the bands. And there's the theory that mythology and fantasy books / horror movies have contributed to it. It's probably an accumulation of all these factors. The anti-christianity that most of the people (in the scenes you mentioned) pursued was in the form of edging each other on, but Varg topped it by burning churches. I recommend you read "Lords of Chaos" if you want to know more about this. It's not a great book but it's about the stuff you're interested in. Other than that I'm sure Varg can explain you himself why he burned the churches, visit burzum.com or the russian fansite for some of his articles.

The pretext of this question is flawed because it suggests that Scandinavia had significantly more metal bands than other countries, which is not true. Highly religious areas, such as South America, and the U.S.A. also churned out a bunch of metal bands with anti-Christian themes. †
In the last 20 years Scandinavia has secularized enormously. Christianity was a lot more prevalent in society there years ago. The bands that recorded the worthwhile albums grew up in a much more Christian environment.
Where Scandinavia separates itself is in the tendency for metal there to gravitate toward a more pre-Christian philosophy, which is practically unseen elsewhere. This is due to Scandinavia being the last area in Europe to be Christianized, leaving a more recent memory of itís past in the collective psyche of its people.

Indeed. But as I've understood it wasn't so much christianity itself that shaped it but rather the influence christianity has on society. Horror-movies that are routinely censored, high taxes on alcohol, conformist social lives, etc. At least, that would have been the case in Norway. But most Norwegians aren't that fanatical church-goers, and neither were they then if that's what you're suggesting.

Metal / Re: Art & BM/DM
« on: October 29, 2006, 04:35:49 AM »
Norse Mythology Art

This site misses some of the information, but it has plenty of pictures to make up for it and as far as I've seen so far they're categorized very well offering an abundant overview.

Metal / Re: Values as self-pleasing human creation?
« on: October 25, 2006, 09:49:09 AM »
First of all let me be the one to point out that I am not a moderator here, I am merely a visitor. But it is my impression that this board is connected to a website that is filled with articles evolving around the subjects you so poorly attempt to address. You should have no need to ask me for a book to read, or to be making posts like this, if you would simply read the articles there. This goes for a lot of the posts that are placed in this forum, and it can really irritate the ones who have already passed that state of ignorance (if they ever were at that state, no offence) and want to move onward. Posts like yours demand a patronizing type of encouraging that I believe this forum should do well to abandon if people want any form of healthy debat to take place here. At most your post could cause reactions from more intelligent people than yourself, but a truly intelligent person would not be attracted to such a discussion as it offers little challenge or intellectual reward and is therefore not worth the effort. A discussion that starts off bad requires constant correcting and therefore can not lead us beyond where we are now.

Others might see it differently, like I said I am not a moderator.

I thought that there are some people inside this forum that would be not "trained" enough like me.

I do see that as saying: "Hey I'm a moron, why can't I discuss this with morons then?"

You can, but not here please.

Metal / Re: Values as self-pleasing human creation?
« on: October 25, 2006, 02:26:49 AM »
My natural response to all this would be "DIE FASCIST DIE DIE" but however, I tried to be more open-minded. I understood that this man is full of values. Ethics play a huge and important role in this kind of people. They view themselves as messagers, that they have some kind of mission in their lives. Now this mission specificly on Varg, which originates in Pagan Ancestry or I don't know what, was passed down from generation to generation, from parents to childern etc etc. So, in my opinion this could very easily be propaganda that some ancestor made up, maybe to defend the homecountry or for other reasons and was immortalized by all the next generations. Filling Vargs head with values he could do nothing but accept them and host this ideology.
Generally, Values bring pleasure to a person when he upholds them. Having no values at all, a person would collapse into being an animal that would want to fulfill its needs. So my question is simple: Are values created by humans to please themselves?  
Maybe sub-conciously or by some strange mechanism I don't know. Perhaps the parents say: "DO THIS IT'S GOOD, UPHOLD THAT IDEA AND YOU'RE GOOD". The kid remebered that and actually felt good when for example he managed to get another kid to go with him/her to church or he said good things about his home country etc etc. Then the kid started to deepen his philosophy into that but wasn't able to see that value is not some energy or entity or what, but a simple creation of the mind, which is absolutely selfish and nowhere near being an open-minded result of searching for the truth.

I'm sure you'll love the L.o.C. movie when it comes out....

To be honest, and you even said it yourself, your post is fodder. Before this post makes it's way to compost (which I hope it will) allow me to give you some advice before you post again.

I'm not so fanatic about my theories anyway.

Then why bother posting them? Now you're making people read them and apologizing about them at the same time. It's like jumping into the ring with Mike Tyson and then saying "Hey you know what? I'm not such a great boxer, but I just wanted to be here." People on this forum want to see a "good fight" if you know what I mean. It's half-baked posts like yours that drag the overall level of quality of this forum down. You said yourself you haven't done much reading yet, well then I suggest you go do some "training" and come back when you're confident about your theories. Until then you're simply not worth discussing with for someone who did bother to do some reading and listening to music before posting on this forum, and those are the people this forum seeks to attract. And it's weak posts like yours that drive those kind of people away so that's why I hope this thread goes to compost as well as all the other idiot-threads ("metal to write stories to" is another fine example IMHO of a such a thread)

Metal / Re: What were the origins of death metal?
« on: October 24, 2006, 04:58:44 AM »
Mayhem's "Pure Fucking Armageddon" demo was recorded in 1986 and "Deathcrush" the following year. Vajra, whatever gave you the idea PFA was from 1983? The official mayhem website (where you can download the PFA demo) also states that PFA is from 1986.

Metal / Re: Metal to be blamed for school shootings
« on: October 24, 2006, 01:14:53 AM »
Rwja is right, but for wrong (or at least poorly articulated) reasoning. If this sort of incident is used in the mainstream media as an example of why metal is ultimately antisocial, uncompromising and esoteric music (guilt by association--the logic behind this connection is faulty but this is of little concern to most people) then it's tacitly performing a service to the scene by painting it as something to be avoided by people whose values coincide with that of the culture at large.

I also think Rwja has a point by saying that it's good for metal to be feared by moralists and crowdists. In fact, I think the concept of "Better to be feared than to be respected" helped shape the early Norwegian Black Metal scene. However, since the shooter involved here has yet to turn out to be a "true metalhead" instead of a mental wreck that used anything as an emotional crutch to lean upon, it's safe to say that newsflashes like these are serving society's puppetmaster's at least as much as they serve metal. If I'm not mistaken it took only a few hours after 9-11 for the government to pin-point a bunch of supposed muslim-extremists to put the blame on, and some of them were in fact still alive and well. And when the first news-reports come in about a school-shooter for some reason they are usually accompanied by "the killer wore black and listened to rebellious music" I'm not saying that it's a conspiracy though, I think it's just society's way of dealing with this kind of extreme criticism from it's subjects (as some of you have already elaborated upon)

Posted by: ChristianHolocaust Posted on: Oct 9th, 2006, 5:26pm
Heavy metal also causes terrorism.
Only a few years ago, Gadahn was a Southern California teenager with interests in the environment, the Los Angeles Dodgers and heavy metal music. - news for couchbound idiots
The implication is clear: a few years of heavy metal and environmentalism (baseball is safe) and you'll be ready to join al-Qaeda.

Now you are mixing up things. The implication here is that a few years ago he was a normal american teen with normal american teenage interests.

"His family says he converted to Islam at an Orange County mosque. There, officials say, Gadahn came under the influence of militants who took him to Pakistan. Officials believe Gadahn is hiding in Pakistan with an Afghan wife.

See? They're blaming Islam here, not metal. Metal is good for them in their crusade against terrorism. Metal is played in Iraq before the boys go into action, metal is played in Guantanamo Bay to torture prisoners mentally, let me tell you: Bush LOVES metal. Of course it's the Korn type of metal, because that brand of metal serves exactly their purpose: build up anger in kids but give it no clear direction. Next step: enroll them in the army and point out the enemy for them, or better yet: stage a terrorist attack against your own country! That'll get people to follow you...

Posted by: ChristianHolocaust Posted on: Oct 12th, 2006, 7:15pm
Tips for School Shooters:
1. Tell no one.
2. Find areas where students are in great concentration and you can block at least one exit. The Columbine killers did their best work in the cafeteria.
3. Don't wear black.
4. Bring in 2-3 serviceable weapons that fire rapidly, as many fragmentation bombs as you can, and a good knife/machete.
5. Write your manifesto in advance and scatter it both outside and on the corpses (scattering it outside means the press gets it).
6. The cop sharpshooters are only good if they can see you. Do a two-day standoff and die fighting them when the SWAT team comes in the front door.
7. Before you go in, replace all your Morbid Angel and Slayer CDs with Joss Stone and Fifty Cent.

Ok, so you're obviously kidding here. Nevertheless you also show some terrible ignorance here: the killers did their most effective work in the library, not the cafeteria! They tried to blow up the cafeteria, but didn't succeed. Do some research before posting stuff like this, even (especially) when you just wanna poke fun at things.

Oh, and for those of you who ever wondered. Eric Harris, who is believed to have been the driving force behind the Columbine massacre, his favourite band was KMFDM. The boys videotaped themselves a lot posing with guns and acting eerily goofy. On the day before the massacre Eric even made a statement on video saying that "this is total KMFDM" Eric and Dylan were also enthusiastic Doom players.

It's plain stupid though, if music or video-games caused these kinds of things to happen they would happen MUCH more often considering how many kids are into these after-school activities. By the same reasoning religion would be to blame for every war, and America would be to blame every time some knucklehead country experiences problems caused by members of their own population (like Israel-Palestine for instance)

Metal / Re: Prozak's friend makes the 'news'
« on: October 15, 2006, 09:36:48 PM »
"It is time for the unbelievers to discard these incoherent and illogical beliefs," he said. "Isn't it the time for the Christians, Jews, Buddhists and atheists to cast off the cloak of the spiritual darkness which enshrouds them and emerge into the light of Islam?"

And replace one desert-religion with the other? And completely annihilate anything that's left of Ancient-European culture? It seems to me that would be an attempt to cover up shit with more shit. Bin Laden initially got into extremism because of the presence of American soldiers on Arabian holy land. He's right that Westerners have no business there, but Al-Qaida shouldn't try to convert us to their religion. If they want back their holy land it's fine with me. If they want to take our holy land aswell I say war against them is justified.

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