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Messages - Markus
You people actually like slayer's lyrics? I'm a big fan of theirs, and they're music is soem of the best, but i always found their lyrics to be very stupid and nonsensical at times. Reminds me of cannibal corpse lyrics. They just put random words together that sound cool.
Now i think Slayer have developed a unique systematic message, confronting any religion in the world, with sophisticated language. I too used to share your beliefs, but i realised how important their current lyrics are and am trying to embrace them.
Cannibal Corpse, Cradle of Filth, ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? and Death are alike: they took the ideas of others and made a product of them. Why would you bother listening to the third-rate ripoff, when you can hear the originals?
Ask tom G. Warrior.
Stop following VP's ideas, ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? definately do not sound like Prong of Exhoder. Even "Power Metal" in 1988 showed some basis for which groove metal was about to be formed, with the exception of the vocals.
I have wondered myself what a hybrid between American folk or country would sound like with metal. Usually this idea gets translated into redneck blues rock mixed with metal, and what is why ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? is so popular.
ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? is popular because of it's importance, skill and heaviness. ANUS constantly bashes this band with little justification as to why, but more and more dogma and stubborness.
in order to play the new york style of playing you need to have been playing in that particular way for quite awhile, i know plenty of virtuoso guitar players who wouldn't be able to play most early suffocation (this is due to the difference in style as opposed to them lacking the time and effort inserted into an instrument to achieve such a level) so its a bit much to say they ripped of death metal, the members of cannibal corpse are obviously enthusiastic about the genre
You know quite alot of virtuosos? I think you are just using the term a little too loosely for your own good. Don't forget, the general level of individuals today differs too much from those of the 80's. For example, if you know a friend who plays Jason Becker now, by no means should you consider him a virtuoso since the general standard of the term "skill" has been raised considerably since then.
However i agree with your last point, Cannibal Corpse didn't necessarily rip off anything, (except Webster who did rip off the Suffocation bassist with Hammer Smashed Face), but it is just nonsensical, idiotic music.
Rip-off or not, all that really matters is that Cannibal Corpse's music never had much of import to communicate and never made any worthwhile advancements within the death metal genre, and has instead, stayed true to form as a monolith of mediocrity for a solid fifteen-plus years.
Their first two albums are the only two that I would consider to be moderately enjoyable, but even then, it's a very banal approach to the genre, and frankly, there are tons of superior alternatives that should be occupying one's listening time instead.
The best way to put it together. Cannibal Corpse suffers from lack any of any form of intellect, they rely upon the already composed insidious nature of Death Metal, aded to that the comic, stereotype the genre is already given for a "brutal" attack on your ears. Really, the music is completely useless and i think most fans are complete idiots, seriously, who assume that their music means something serious...
When was Morpheus (Descends) around, because their album came out around 92 and thats the same year many sources say they formed, unless that refers to their playing under that name as I know they were simply Morpheus before.
I've always thought CC's early work was like a poor slayer. More "brutal" or whatever but less interesting, and their albums sound sloppy or lazy to me(and yes I know how good Alex webster is supposed to be).
Also saying Suffocation/immolation ripped of CC is like saying Slayer ripped off Venom or the Sex Pistols.
CC is very lazy music, however thast is mainly due to that absolutely useless drummer Paul. Sloppy? I doubt it...listen to Frantic Disembowelment, although the songwriting is too primitive to depend upon, the band can still play their instruments.
Why are so many bands like this? Did everyone just give up on doing something eternal, and start trying to make a buck?
How many individuals actually have enough brainpower to process a concept like that? Very little which is why there are always more morons and useless people than vice versa.
I understand that ANUS itself has brought around this topic over and over again but i still find it rather vague. Cannibal Corpse had emerged before bands such as Immolation, Incantation and Suffocation. SVP claims they ripped them off, how so? Cannibal Corpse had never changed their music or their image thus wouldn't it be easier to say that such bands ripped them off?
most of these newer Deicide fans I have known prefer "Once upon a cross"
I keep saying Legion legion legion but ... to no avail
I would take legion anyday, Once Upon A Cross is one heck of a silly album which is made of corny riffing and fast drumming all packed into a neat package...definately not their best.
The only people who prefer this album are ones who are focused on the mainstream style of playing, just listen to the title track, intelligent? No, stupid? Very.
Amazon says June 9, 1992, but they're not always right.
One thing this article got right is that newer fans, those maybe twenty-five and younger, were not listening to metal when Deicide was putting out good music. They know Deicide only as crap like their recent album, Stench of Christian Analboylove and It Hurts, or whatever it's called.
That album is actually a decent one, i understand how unpopular that idiot Ralph Santolla is, but his guitar work must be admired, i enjoy it at least.
Come to think of it, this just proves how fake Deicide are even though their set of ideologies are unparalleled in power and anger.
the only reason classical musicians are so skilled is because it is very hard to play well in a group of 100 + people and sound very good, if but one person is out of time it drags down the performance of the entire orchestra
to be able to play well is one thing, but to be able to play well in a group is another thing entirely
Precisely i think the same could be said about Mike Portnoy.
Death's music truly was empty in the later albums they produced, especially if it was inspired by christian ideas or wherever he was on the philosophy scale at that point in time. Its hard not to get too subjective when talking about this stuff, but i really believe that Chuck's musicianship can not in any way compete with the spirit in Atheist's music. The songs on Unquestionable Presence, aside from having unique and inspired lyrics, were expressive to the point where the music transmits the indescribable aspect of the music. Because of that, i've had no real reason to pay attention to any other prog band since they've all failed to capture this essence that Atheist's music very clearly possesses. Thats the reason i don't bother with Death or any other prog band: no prog band since Atheist has been able to recreate this type of expression in music that speaks without speaking. Prog metal is really just a joke term and any band who claims it is usually a sell out. That gimmick is almost as bad as newer black metal, save a good few. If you get past the hype, Chuck really wasn't this death/prog messiah. His older albums were good, but theres definitely better, so why get hung up over it?
Even if Chuck was somehow Christian inspired, i think that even his newest album, The Sound Of Perseverence had some decent music on although not as 'solid' as would be expected if you hadn't gave the album a listen. However, it is Chucks strongest guitar album, technically, although i don't recall any song titles, he definately cleaned up alot of his playing and was more successful at merging skill and intricate soloing with good phrasing - although even that is overrated by your average Death fan.
About no band being able to play the type of music Atheist has been playing, isn't that sort of broad? Have you heard of Dream Theatre for instance? Their music could be considered unparalleled really since their time signitures and composition is so well versed.
Plus i don't know if Gorgots would be considered Prog Metal, but their music is definately superior to Atheist as well. Polyrhythms and odd time signitures all fitted together in an extremely well organized, systematic rhetoric that has direction, integrity and is useful.
I am not dissing Atheist, but i think other bands are being overlooked because of Paterrsons death. Bands such as Martyr, Gorguts, Nile, Necrophagist and probably alot more that i am not aware of are completely ignored despite their intriguing characteristics of their material.
I enjoy Human, but your argument is true. It also makes sense as some of his players were from Cynic. After that he became too obsessed with Priest and Helloween styled power metal with some edges of death metal remaining, and created flashy, overfilled rock based metal music. I think we all understand the legions of people who proudly state that Chuck created death metal and was the most technical, philosophical band. I think he was a solid guitarist but like dimebag darrel, wasted it on lesser, empty music.
A topic i have always wanted to discuss.
I think Chuck had little intention of creating a true Technical Death Metal band which was focused on dexterity. More or less, he tried to emphasis on the philosophical approach the genre had already undertaken several years later, and put it all into abstract thought. However either way, there are bands which are much more technically superior than Death ever was (and Cynic for that matter) such as Nile, Necrophagist, Martyr and Beneath The Massacre (there are a few more, but those exemplify what i'm trying to say) All these bands have developed some of the most unorthodox and aggressive emphasis on skill, not only in terms ofplaying the actual intrument, but in terms of song composition, incorporating things such as Polyrhythms and syncopations.
That was regarding the materialistic concept of the situation. Beneath The Massacre have brought what Chuck had tried to bring to light in their first LP, they not only extrapolated what Death has tried to say, but brought it all in a non socially relevant manner as to make it more sophisticated and not stagnant as the outcome of Death was.
Regarding Chuck and Dimebag as guitar players, i wouldn't say Chuck was as skilled as Dimebag. If you pick up Cowboys From Hell or Reinventing The Steel or just would have gone to a Dimebag concert you would have noticed his very advanced Legato technique, he was impeccable live really, although not amongst the likes of Micheal Angelo Batio and Paul Gilbert, could still hold his own against many, even if his music was useless.
Chuck on the otherhand, could play, but nothing above your average speed attack on the fretboard, it was nice to see him play solos, but nothing like what is said of him.
People should read this for a further insight on the issue.