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Metal / Re: Sold out heavy metal bands help sell cars
« on: January 09, 2009, 07:58:56 PM »
Rock (scion.com/rock) ? Ummm... even the weaker bands on this list aren't exactly rock. At least not from the mainstream point of view, if I were a rock fan and went to that show I'd be thinking 'wtf?'. If you were expecting something like Guns N Roses style music but areblasted with 1349 then you're in for a shock.

Interzone / Re: Dark Legions Archive Metal Film Project
« on: January 09, 2009, 06:55:56 PM »
I believe there is a text interview with Antti Boman somewhere, of yet I know of no video interview.

I am currently looking around for a high-specification computer that would be able to handle heavy multimedia editing. If any computer nerds amongst you can recommend a good machine setup, it would be really appreciated. I'm confused on matters such as how much RAM I would realistically need and what is the best out of core-duo/quad-core/i7 processors (because otherwise I will just end up going for the highest/fastest available when I could be saving hundreds of £'s). Which manufacturers are the best and most reliable? Graphics cards? My current system is Windows 98, running on AMD 700mhz with 128MB of RAM, which is fairly pathetic and doesn't let me do much beyond Microsoft Paint.

We prefer the term geeks, I'm like so offended!!1

Quad core is supposed to be better than duo in that it can do more things at once, this is true if you have many things to do at once but I really can't say if that is definitely true for video editing. I'd say go for quad core at least, help to future proof yourself. I don't know much about i7 but it would be a fair wager to say they are supposed to improve upon quad core, perhaps you can find a computer magazine like pc shopper or browse the net for technical reviews. Ultimately though, a faster processor just means your the calculations performed by the video editing program as performed quicker; for what you are doing the processing time won't be much of an issue. Your current computer will be ueber slow compared to modern ones but there won't be too much difference between newer ones. My understanding of video editing programs is that they like to dump alot of the video in RAM, so the more the better: 1GB minimum is fairly standard, that will work but 2GB or 4GB would be nicer. I doubt you will need much more. pcnextday.co.uk have a fair range of desktops at reasonable prices, check them against novatech.co.uk and dabs.co.uk.

Software wise, all computers come with vista these days. That will work fine. Windows also has a free video editing program: Windows Movie Maker. That can handle the basics and may be enough for what we want to do, a friend of mine recommends Adobe Premier. I'm sure it is a superior program but it has a superior pricetag, so you will need to hunt for a torrent.

I'm also in the UK so perhaps a collaboration will work.

Interzone / Re: Dark Legions Archive: The Book
« on: January 08, 2009, 05:03:59 PM »
DLA Book
Status: Proposed idea that has little or no discussion. The content upon which the book should be based already exists (DLA website).

Suggestions welcome, project contributors more than welcome.

My suggestion:

The core of it is the metal history, which then dovetails into metal philosophy, and then lists the top echelon of metal releases by year.

That should be about 200-300 pages.

On the physical book:
 I'm thinking that perfect bind in soft (and maybe hard) back is best with  200 - 300 pages of depth at a size of 9' x 6' (?): something similar in size to Lords of Chaos.

I'm asking myself and forum members these question: What do we want to achieve with a DLA book? Why do one at all? Can't we just leave the market to others?

Succinct answer: provide a coherent yet alternative/ non-hipster analysis of metal.
The aim is to clear up some myths about metal; show that metal is an artform and is the most relevant musicform for a failing society; help metal achieve an academic footing; and lastly promote the DLA as a source of metal. I agree with the suggestion of content and would present like so: Chart metal's history (much like Lords of Chaos did) and then provide an understanding of what metal is and is not (much like the DLA FAQ). The latter is essentially metal philosophy, this would lead naturally to looking at metal culture (community / scene / fashion / other paraphernalia). The lists of best bands could either appear as an appendix or integrated with metal history (imo).

The simplest and least refined idea would be to literally copy paste the website into book format. Pros: don't need to write new material, most of which is solidly written. Cons: Won't appeal enough to the everday metal fan, nevermind the every day person. The reviews are of a complex lexicological nature, it has its uses, but it won't help to sell the product or promote the DLA to a wider audience. I think the most obvious path is take the information already on the DLA and transcribe it into a more digestable format. Not that we should include reviews of every band but reviews / comments on major bands and albums would be a worthy inclusion (perhaps that would go into an appendix if it doesn't slot logically into metal history).

Interzone / Re: Dark Legions Archive Metal Film Project
« on: January 08, 2009, 04:42:11 PM »
If we had a metalhead in each country willing to interview that country's bands on video, it would remain to some central authority to edit it into a film.

I think it makes sense to have an outline first.

The centralization point isn't much of an issue, imo. With sites like rapidshare and megaupload we can potentially share large files with ease, low quality videos can be youtube-d as a proof of concept. Although I'll admit that while the transfer of data should be easy enough, the actual editing process will be trickier.

I think the outline is good (how could I sanely disagree?) but I think my suggestion may work as a precursor to the 'real' documentary. Some of the material might actually be worth using for real too. I hope the idea provides a stimulus for people to get started, I'm certainly milling ideas about where to get a camera and potentially do a shoot. Short videos will be a proof of concept and if nothing more will be a point of advertising for the DLA.

An outline can and should be developed, making necessary revisions as we progress. Some headway as already been made, ASBO has raised some of the most sensible suggestions of an achieveable outcome: don't bite off more than we can chew, show link between metal and romanticism, chart metal history from a non-hipster POV.

Interzone / Hessianism: list of active ideas
« on: January 08, 2009, 12:58:34 PM »
We need a topic listing active ideas that are good but need collaborators because Hessians are too dysfunctional to launch anything themselves.

"Put up a flyer? But I've never had a class in putting up flyers!"

Dark Legions Archive Metal Film Project

A DLA project that aims to create a metal documentary.
Status: Under discussion. Ideas are evolving towards something practically achieveable, the first step in achieving some footage is close but hasn't happened yet.

Hessian Pugilist Compact 

Combat/ martial art practise.
Status: Idea proposed. Will presumably work at a local level so will thrive in a place where there are several Hessians living in close proximty.

Heavy Metal, Death Metal and Black Metal - Hessian Wiki

Non-populist metal wiki.
Status: Started; has skeleton content. Needs more articles about metal in general.

DLA Book
Status: Proposed idea that has little or no discussion. The content upon which the book should be based already exists (DLA website).

Suggestions welcome, project contributors more than welcome.

Interzone / Re: Hessian Pugilist Compact
« on: January 07, 2009, 07:14:40 PM »
I'm guessing this idea never got off the ground which is a shame. It is a good idea and would work, be sustainable, if done in a properly controlled manner. The problem is the vast distances that separate us all; however, that doesn't make it impossible and unworthy as an idea. Would be great if it got going.

Metal / Re: LUCTUS "Jaučiant Pabaigą Arti" released Feb 16
« on: January 07, 2009, 04:36:42 PM »
By weird coincidence I was thinking about the name Luctus yesterday. My friend came across the band on the net and downloaded some of the music, he liked what he heard and tried to contact the guy to buy one of the demos/albums but never got a reply. That would have been circa 04. I'll go have a listen on the link provided.

Interzone / Re: Dark Legions Archive Metal Film Project
« on: January 07, 2009, 04:29:23 PM »
Good point.

Aiming to make a 4-8 minute youtube fodder video would get the word out, and allow you to scrounge funding for a full-length.

On Finance:
I had the first part in mind but the second part is a good suggestion too but might be tricky. We could try directly asking for a grant from an arts council if we get a serious video made, or perhaps from some other benefactor. I don't see this as necessary but it is a worthy possibility.

We could also try to advance the idea without serious funding: perhaps a serious attempt at a short video may encourage those in the 'industry' to work with us, show them what we want/mean then ask them if they would 'help'. When I say help, I'm thinking that someone like Candlelight may be willing to provide a reliable point of contact with some of their bands; if the project strongly supports them there might be a mutual advertising oppportunity (no money changing hands). If we deal with a business then we'll need to think in business terms too, they are unlikely to do something for nothing; I'd be happy to work on a project like this without getting paid but I'm not a business. Another good contact to have in an interview would be Kieth Kahn-Harris, despite how good or bad his book is, he ought to have some interesting views plus his own fame seems to be on the increase. We could interview a bunch of nobodies that have an extremely intelligent viewpoint about metal but their lack of reputation is unlikely to promote our film(s).

Getting started (another idea):
We could (should?) invite people from internet-land to go out and shoot their own metal documentary, a short film of 4 - 6 minutes as you suggest, then we can try to figure out which videos/people have the best ideas and see if anything is worth taking further. If a mass of people upload videos to youtube then the DLA admin team/film-leaders could sift through the posted videos and make a decision about which ones to continue. We should realise that our members are spread out around the World (mainly US/Europe) and use that to our advantage, we don't need everyone to be in the same room. This basically means that  people from Texas, India, the UK could create separate short videos, upload them, then they can be spliced together to create a single/ whole product. Creating a long documentary is a big task, breaking down into manageable chunks is a good idea, funding/collaboration is also a good idea. So encouraging forum members + others that drop by to create videos might get us started. Thoughts?

Interzone / Re: Dark Legions Archive Metal Film Project
« on: January 05, 2009, 04:27:13 PM »
I might suggest that the project doesn't cut off more than it can chew.

Establish that metal is Late Romanticist in outlook, and talk about what Romanticism (pre-metal) had going for it.

Essentially create one piece (cell) of the idea and see how it turns out. If it sucks then continuing with the rest of the project will be a waste. The idea is good but might not be manageable at the current time. I'd also aim to not alienate the audience, choose words carefully: maintain meaning but don't be overly heavy handed, otherwise the message will be wasted on most people (not our goal, imo).

How much of the practical side of shooting a film has been considered? I have an email (2 years old) that had a brief discussion of equipment, I can post if that would be helpful. The film needs a script, shooting equipment (camera, mic etc) and then editing equipment (computer + software). The first part is the cheapest, the second will be the most expensive (the software can be downloaded). I used to have a copy of video editing software and could potentially get another copy, I also know someone that is quite skilled at video/music editing. I'm happy to accept emails/ private messages to further discussion.

Interzone / Re: "In praise of the part-time musician"
« on: January 05, 2009, 03:43:10 PM »
The article is sound in logic, I agree with what he is saying but didn't know he had released another book. I remember hearing about the first one but I also remember that I was skeptical about it. Has anyone here read his first book and willing to offer a comment?

Seems that there is a ton of books on the subject of metal, most of which have slipped under my radar. Also, wtf is this: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Metal-Documentary/dp/B000O76TRM/ref=pd_sim_b_8

or this:

Didn't intend to hijack the topic just amazed what exists and is linked from the KKH amazon page.

Interzone / Re: Dark Legions Archive Metal Film Project
« on: December 20, 2008, 02:46:47 PM »
Email summary from previous discussions about a DLA film are below. This is a brainstorm, so expect a lack of order and there are several voices. There are worthwhile comments that anyone should take on board if they plan to undertake this project.

How would we do a metal documentary that explains the real parts of the genre to the average viewer? Ghaal's "satan" was imagic but not effective. Lords of chaos was discursive but not communicative. We could do better.

One possible method: aim for short films that are more in-depth and more specific. Something like chapters in a book. Creating the 'chapters' is a good way to start but it must be edited into one unified film.

What do you think about steering away from lyrical content to look at imagery, appearance and interviews?
- I presume aural imagery here, which should probably be emphasized in the lyrics anyway. Reciting lyrics and giving their interpretation would be boring, making strong hints about the lyrics being important might help though. I'm planning to avoid us saying 'listen to this killer album, yo!' - you know that many fans just listen to metal 'coz it is brootal'.

Some two years ago or so I began thinking about doing a metal documentary.  My thought at the time was not to do a video that "objectively" pried into the entire genre (as the recent Headbangers journey more or less tried to do),
my idea was to elucidate on the best of the best.  What I had in mind was more akin to the best moments of Lords of Chaos.  I intended to go in depth into the deeper, philosophical and esoteric elements of the bm genre and attempt to bring out the spirit of what the best of the best were trying to do while in their peak.  One thing I really wanted to drive home was the folkloric, mythological and tantric background of metal and really get inside the essence of that. This is, I think, much different than what you gentlemen are thinking.  It seems you both are discussing having small segments hosted on the Hessians site that can serve as general introductions to metals various genres and ideological foundations.  This is much different in my mind than doing a traditional documentary, in part because it more or less requires bringing together resources that are already floating around and pasting them together into a presentable format as opposed to really heading out to get new material first hand.

I think what needs to be asked is what kind of media project is being discussed, a documentary, or a series of metal "training videos" that highlight different aspects of the metal culture?  If you are intent on going out and doing first hand search, getting interviews, etc, then I'd say that's a bit much for a "training video" format as if you go that far, why not go all the way and make a full length documentary?  Doing the more grandiose documentary will require a lot of pre-production resources, funds, planning and materials and thus it makes it much more taxing and labor intensive.

I think a series of shorts should be broken up as follows:

-Metal History (as well as a discussion on metal future)

-Metal Genres (relevant bands briefly discussed along with what defines each genre aesthetically and musically): Heavy, Speed, Death, Black

-Influences on Metal: blues, rock, jazz, thrash, punk, hardcore, electronic, progressive, folk, classical

-Metal Culture (metal fans, shows, venues, trading, merchandise, record stores; this can be broken into parts 1,2,3, etc, etc)

That would basically be the gist of the shorts.  There can be more shorts spun off from these but I think what I just listed serves as a pretty encompassing area into the exoteric aspects of metal music and culture.

Look's like someone has already beaten us to it: http://www.myspace.com/blackmetalmovie . This appears to be solely about Norwegian Black Metal.
- No one has yet done a movie about underground metal in terms of why it is why it is.

Interzone / Re: Why Relativism Fails
« on: December 20, 2008, 01:49:19 PM »
Relativity is how to measure things in a relative universe.

Relativism is how they ought to be valued objectively, knowing that they are measured relatively.

I understand your point but physicists don't use relativity as way of measuring things in what they believe to be a relative universe; they (in general) believe the universe to be objective and that relativity provides some insight, it provides a link between relative and objective. Which is why I think it is close to your statement of relativism above.

Also, it is possible to go faster than the speed of light, but no information can be transmitted, and in fact, the exact speed of light has been derived (see this).

Could you elaborate on 'it is possible to go faster than the speed of light' ? The absense of something can travel faster than light (eg a shadow), as can a wave's phase velocity (energy isn't affected as the group velocity is not greater than c). The only other example of real faster-than-light velocity is via entanglement. None of which are really useful examples of faster than light travel, I'm still in doubt as to how well they are understood.

Also could you point out which page in particular the speed of light is derived in that pdf? The metre is defined to be consistent with the speed of light, however the definition of the second has changed over time (to increase precision). However, the self-consistency of units does not provide a proof of why speed of light is as it is. The closest attempt that I know of is Maxwell's derivation of the speed of light in a mathematical model that he constructed to describe EM fields. He dervied the correct answer but the model is not physically real.

What does it mean to “reduce” phenomenology? Whose phenomenology do we wish to “reduce”? Husserl's? Heidegger’s? Merleau-Ponty’s? Are you aware that phenomenology arose from a desire to ground the natural sciences apodictically?

Here I have to admit that my knowledge of philosophy is weaker than my knowledge of science.  From my knowledge of physics eduation and surrounding community, the word phenomenology is used to label processes or objects that are poorly understood so much so that these processes/objects (phenomena) appear to work like magic (acts of god). These processes are studied so that they can be better understood, and that there isn't a reliance on just calling it magic and getting on with the rest of life; I like their don't-give-up attitude, despite the calculations being very hard, it would be much easier just to say that God did it and be done with the explanations. For me, this is what it means to reduce phenomenology in science. The universe can be objective without doubt unless you have still have unexplained phenomena (this may never happen); the rising of the sun is no longer a mysterious act of God, we know it will rise tomorrow because we understand the mechanism of the process. This may be at odds with classical definitions but I welcome your input on this one.

How is it possible to have so many messages about relativism, ontology, subjective versus objective knowledge, even namedropping German philosophers and poets, and not pay attention to how much it is a problem of language and syntax?

Many debates can be thwarted by knowing that people disagree on defintions.

Interzone / Re: Dark Legions Archive Metal Film Project
« on: December 20, 2008, 12:57:03 PM »
I had this idea back in 06 but was unable to go undertake the project then, and probably still not able to undertake it now (at least not solely but would be more than willing to contribute). I should still have a few emails about this somewhere, I think the original mails are on an account that no longer works. There was also talk of a DLA book but the problem with large projects like these is the necessary time/effort that is required to complete them.

I'd suggest planning it as fully as possible before you think about conducting any interviews or collecting any materials. Of course, some plans may need to be altered over time if they become unfeasible. I'll dig out those emails and try to summarize the ideas therein.

Interzone / Re: Why Relativism Fails
« on: December 16, 2008, 03:48:37 PM »
I would love a detailed description of what exactly "absolute" science is.  There is only one science, the scientific method, and within it 100% accuracy is impossible.  For example, the relativity problem was brought up.  Let's say you had two planets in empty space and one was flying away from the other.  Because there is no reference point, it would be impossible to tell from one of the given planets which planet is flying away.  From each planet it would appear that the other is.  However, this doesn't mean that both views are correct.  Only that it is impossible to determine which one is true given the evidence/circumstances.

The absolutes in physics are essential postulates/principles/axioms, they are assumed to be true so that everything else makes sense: eg the speed of light is constant and is the maximum speed possible (in any reference frame). It is the lynchpin of reality that holds a lot of physics in place, it is also something that has been confirmed by experiment (let's ignore quantum uncertainty for now) but we haven't and can't test that for all possible reference frames in our universe. This is where science meets philosophy, we put faith into this idea being true but until a better idea comes along we have no (little) reason to doubt it. There are many other examples where physics is absolute, it is empirical, but those examples are only true within a given set of (hopefully testable) postulates. Within the current framework, everything in our everyday life is well enough understood that it is empiric, our notion of empiricism only breaks down when we are able to consider situations where the current framework fails. In the past our framework was not as robust which left the door open for phenomenology (lack of empiricism) in our everyday life. Now our failure to describe reality only occurs on scales that are well outside of our everyday life; phenomenology isn't gone, it is just harder for people to apply it these days.

Interzone / Re: Why Relativism Fails
« on: December 16, 2008, 05:41:27 AM »
Relativitism, like nihilism, should not be an endpoint but it does have merit. By holding a relativist stance point then absolutes cannot exist: this strength is also a weakness; much like nihilism. In science (read: physics) there is a notion of relativity, id est General Relativity, it describes reality at a particular scale (very large scales) but it does not explain why it is that way.

You're confusing relativity with relativism.

Not at all. The two are more similar than namesake, on the surface one may seem like a bunch of maths and little else but that isn't quite the case (I'd be interested to know if anyone else here has actually studied the topic). There is a problem with measurement in General Relativity that is closer to philosophy than science, this is a classical problem and has nothing to do with Quantum theory (which makes things worse). This problem is one of which reference frame you chose to make the measurement, ie your truth depends on your point of view: "that is true for you but not for me." As it is a science then it is *probably* less subjective than its philosophical counterpart, although I'm sure you could construct a contrived situation where apples are measured to be bananas.

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