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Messages - Tralfamadorian

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121
If your a physicalist, you think experience only arrived on the scene after animals with a certain complexity evolved, so of course you're not going to think consciousness is a precondition for material existence! You're going to think your argument is purely epistemological and not metaphysical in the slightest, and you would be rationally justified in holding this.
Sorry to butt in guys.

Bill, it seems that Cargest is referring to consciousness as in the Godhead (in a prior post he mentions he refers to it as the monad), so you're kind of barking up the wrong tree here.

Carry on.

122
Quote
1. People probably thought the same about many biological phenomena. Even if they didn't the point is that things that were once inaccessible to 'mechanistic' knowledge become accessible. Imagine someone 'mechanistically' inclined, who didn't accept explanations in terms of the sun's agency, wondering how the sun worked 4000 years ago? Consider the gap between people wondering about the features of animals 2000 years ago and modern molecuar genetics. They would think molecular biology unfathomable, mystical, and downright impossible.
The problem is that the fusion in the sun and the replication of cells exist in the 'external' world, ie we can observe them. Consciousness, by its very nature, is unobservable in and of itself. (unless, of course, you believe in telepathy ;) )


Quote
2. The incapability of science to explain experience in a way we find satisfactory might be a purely epistemological issue, not a metaphysical one, as described in my last post.
I don't think I understand. How could the examination of being itself not be metaphysical?

EDIT: Ok, I get what you're saying. There's no reason to ascribe "magical" properties to something just because it cannot be explained. I agree. My reason for believing in the possibility of the 'immateriality' of consciousness is really just an intuition or feeling; it is ingrained into the way I look at the world. Cargest did a commendable job of arguing this viewpoint but it's clear he did not change your mind, as such I doubt any combination of words I could come up with will change your mind either.

123
Why is it that my toaster, which functions by means of an electrical current, not conscious; but when there is an electrical current that interacts with neurons, that translates to consciousness experience? Why are brains the only type of matter that can produce consciousness? What kind of interface exists that translates an electrical impulse or surge of serotonin in our neurons into a conscious thought or feeling? How does one will a thought into being? I really doubt neuroscience will ever be able to fully solve the mind body problem.

124
Interzone / Re: Being and staying healthy in modern times
« on: October 29, 2012, 03:50:18 AM »
stone lifting
Unfortunately my backyard lacks a pile of boulders. Think I'll stick with the gym.


or worse, for aesthetic body builders.
What's your beef with bodybuilding? I recently switched from strength  training (high weight low reps) to more of a bodybuilding routine (low weight high reps) and it's a nice change of pace. It's less stressful on your body, while at the same time requires more conditioning. It's a different but equally legitimate approach to working out. How is it any more vain than strength training? If anything it requires you to ignore your ego and its incessant desire to lift the most amount of weight possible.

125
Metal / Re: Death metal riff types
« on: October 29, 2012, 03:28:29 AM »
When I think Pedal tone I think of Demilich and this riff in particular :

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_z3FcSWJvJw#t=4s
Could you explain why you would consider that riff a pedal tone? I don't really hear it.

Added transmutation riff -- if you have better examples, please share.

126
Metal / Re: music is not beautiful
« on: October 27, 2012, 03:18:59 AM »
I'm not sure I follow. What is music describing? Something metaphysical, like Truth? Or perhaps an emotion? If a composition makes you feel beautiful feelings then why not call it beautiful? Why play with words like this?

127
Interzone / Re: Study: diversity makes us psychotic
« on: October 25, 2012, 05:37:29 AM »
Relationships are like roots. When they are deep, the plant weathers the storm just fine. When they are shallow, ... well, you get the idea.

128
Metal / Re: Death metal riff types
« on: October 25, 2012, 05:32:32 AM »
Updated.

129
Interzone / Re: Stripper music
« on: October 22, 2012, 08:32:21 AM »
I was appalled by the approbation of promiscuity in the Nicki Minaj song Starships ("But fuck who you want, and fuck who you like") until I realized that males glorified promiscuity all through the 70s, culminating in the 80s with cock rock; this made me slightly less disgusted.

Feminism blah blah downward spiral blah....

130
Metal / Re: Death metal riff types
« on: October 22, 2012, 06:40:21 AM »
I suppose we could call those parallel harmony riffs.  That technique's almost as old as metal itself.

131
Interzone / Re: Facing reality as Mother Earth created it
« on: October 21, 2012, 04:45:04 AM »
Continue the story.....
The group's resident Christian Fundamentalist, Conservationist, contorts his face into a grimace of disgust that quickly turns to consternation. "SO SAYS THE LORD: when a man layeth with another man, it is an abomination. Obviously, we must have already upset OUR LORD considering the mess we're in. Seeing as I am the most Christlike of the bunch, that makes me the leader. And as our leader, I BANISH THE SODOMITES FROM OUR SOCIETY. So as not to incur the wrath of THE LORD on all of us." Taken aback, BillHopkins, diesel, and the rest of the materialists  walk away sullenly, heads down, kicking the sand, mumbling something about how even animals have gay sex. Conservationist then instructs the remaining forum members to make cat-o'-nine-tails, so that they might win back the favor of THE LORD through self-flagellation.

Meanwhile...

Transcix sits indian style, trying to summon the help of dolphins through the astral plane.

Tralfamadorian absconds with the makeshift tools the group has made to build a radical tree fort.

MilitantIdiotCrusher recites 4chan memes to a rock.

132
Metal / Re: Death metal riff types
« on: October 21, 2012, 04:23:27 AM »
Interesting riff selections. Though the Slayer and Morbid Angel riffs you cited don't fit the pedal tone template per se, the concept is similar: a tone or series of tones serve as a foundation for a more complex series of tones higher in the register.

As for the Napalm Death song, I can't tell if they're playing tremolo or just playing the power chords faster, but the idea is there. I'll do some detective work on early grindcore/hardcore, or perhaps someone who specializes in that stuff can enlighten us.

I'm working on collecting examples for sequence riffs, "spider" riffs, dirge riffs, and chug riffs.

133
Interzone / Re: Opinions.
« on: October 20, 2012, 04:20:58 AM »
Crow is a great troll.

134
Metal / Death metal riff types
« on: October 20, 2012, 04:19:06 AM »
ITT we identify, and classify, and name death metal riff/phrase types. Other types of metal are fine too I suppose.

Please link to the riff on youtube (you can do this by pausing at the part of the song where the riff starts and right-clicking, then selecting "copy video URL at current time") to maximize clarity and learning.

Power Chord to Tremolo Phrase (feel free to help me name these)
Example #1: Obituary - Dying
Example #2: Necrophobic - The Nocturnal Silence
Example #3: Infester - Excoriation Killz the Bliss

This extremely common death metal riff is takes a set of intervals, eg a melody, and creates two permutations: One played in power chords,  and one  tremolo picked. This riff creates contrast through a simulated change in timbre. I'm not sure who originated this riff style, but I'd like to know.


The Pedal Tone Riff
Example #1: At the Gates - Forever Blind
Example #2: The Black Dahlia Murder - The Window (WARNING: PEDOCORE)
Example #3: Kreator - Under a Total Blackened Sky

This riff style -- having its origins in speed metal but consummated by At the Gates -- is omnipresent in Gaythenburg melodic "death metal" and metalcore. It consists of a repeated note played at the lower end of the scale that alternates with various higher scale tones, forming a melody. Typically much less blocky and much more consonant than traditional death metal riffs, it's debatable whether or not this is death metal riff at all, but rather a heavy metal neologism.

The Gallop Riff
Example #1: Slayer - Raining Blood
Example #2: Sacramentum - Spiritual Winter
Example #3: Iron Maiden - The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner

The gallop riff was widely used by NWOBHM and speed metal bands. although uncommon in death metal, it still crops up occassionally, usually as a nod to influences. Contrary to popular beleif, gallop riffs do not consist of triplets but of two sixteenth notes and a quarter note, or any proportional arrangement thereof. The this rhythm is be played on a lower tone in the register, serving as rhythmic and harmonic groundwork for a bar or two of melody interspersed symmetrically between gallops.

The Transmutation Phrase
Example #1: Suffocation - Breeding the Spawn
Example #2: Deeds of Flesh - Path of the Weakening
Example #3: Hacksaw to the Throat - Cascading Down (Ignore the name - this is some of the best post-2000 metal)

The transmutation riff consists of two riffs, A and B. Riff A can be divided into two sub-riffs, A1 and A2. Subriff A2, at the end of riff A's repetition cycle, becomes the basis for riff B. Thus, riff A transmutes into riff B. This technique is popular with 'brutal' death metal bands. If you know how to describe this technique in formal theory, do tell.

More to come...

135
Interzone / Re: Opinions.
« on: October 19, 2012, 02:48:15 AM »
Fact: Everything is an opinion.

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