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Messages - AVFN

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Metal / Re: Indian classical music
« on: April 23, 2011, 04:05:58 AM »
I adore what little Indian classical I've heard. There's a whole world of music there to be investigated and its terribly exciting.

I don't know much but I picked up a cd on holiday once, almost at random, and I would thoroughly recommend it for anyone interested in north indian vocals, Agra-Atrauli gharana in this case. The music accompaniment is more ambient/drone using tabla, harmonium and two tampuras. The lead vocalist is a lady named Lalith Rao and its her name on the cd, which is entitled Inde du Nord/North India - Raga Darbari Kanhada/Raga Desh. Its published by Ocora: Radio France.

Like I said, its very ambient and all of the dynamic is really in her voice. Also the tracks are all long, ranging from 9:19 to 27:47, so I doubt it will be for everyone but it very much suits my taste.

Metal / Re: Arvo Pärt
« on: April 23, 2011, 03:52:33 AM »
hack! what's your mind supposed to do with minimalism I really don't know.
Excuse my ignorance, but isn't a lot of metal minimal? Black Metal in particular?

Metal / Re: Classic Massacra Video
« on: March 24, 2011, 09:18:41 AM »
Moshing is a boy's or a drunken man's game. Besides, I don't like to be seen having too much fun. Perhaps thats because I'm Northern Irish, I don't know. Stoic appreciation only. Maybe the odd bang. No mosh, no fun.

Metal / Re: Looking forward
« on: March 24, 2011, 08:04:15 AM »
Would it be possible or beneficial for metal guitarists to derive some inspiration from eastern classical music like hindustani? Guitarists like John Fahey, Robbie Basho and Jack Rose have already shown that classical indian methods can be successfully mixed with traditional european guitar styles with some superb results. Furthermore, if you wanted to go deeper, then Indo-European theory in the fields of comparative mythology, religious studies and ethnology, derived from the works of men like Dumezil or Eliade, could provide a feasable thematic/ideological underpinning to the music.

Metal / Re: Where is all the *high-quality* Pagan Black Metal?
« on: March 11, 2011, 03:05:23 AM »
Like Umbrage said, it has to do with the starting time of each type of metal.  Location also seems to be a large factor.  Most of the pagan bands I've heard about or listen(ed) to come from the former Soviet Bloc while the orthodox bands tend to come from NATO countries.  Modern Graveland is a good example: the production is good, but its still not good in the way AVFN seems to want.  Nokturnal Mortem's newer stuff is well produced (garbage) but it nonetheless just sounds different to the western sound.  I have no real way to quantify it or describe it, so it may very well just be my perception, but a Slavic band is going to sound Slavic and a Germanic band is going to sound Germanic (except for Varg, as he speaks fluent Ukrainian and may well become a Cossack Chieftain).
Thats an interesting observation, I hadn't thought of that.

Metal / Re: Where is all the *high-quality* Pagan Black Metal?
« on: March 10, 2011, 03:21:38 PM »
It's probably wrong to compare the production values of pagan BM with orthodox BM. There is no parallel development because both developed in a different era. Orthodox BM developed in a time where high production is easier to acquire with cheaper products. Pagan BM followed much sooner in the shadow of the "first wave of Norwegian BM" and has since been its retarded cousin. If I compare contemporary pagan BM with orthodox BM I notice the pagan bands stick to standard production values while orthodox BM and bands like Xasthur have a very "manufactured" sound and are designed to sound "different" to fool the crowd into thinking they're new and edgy.
Hmm, possibly but if we view Orthodox BM as a consolidation/continuation of the Satanic thread in BM, as opposed to a unique and later phenomenon, then the question still stands - why has Pagan BM not been consolidated/continued in a parallel way? Furthermore, I would say that they both strands had a similar starting point in Scandanavia since the key Norwegian bands covered both pagan and satanic themes early on, either one after the other, as is the case with Bathory, or simultaneously, as with early Burzum and Darkthrone.

Metal / Re: Where is all the *high-quality* Pagan Black Metal?
« on: March 10, 2011, 06:22:50 AM »
Nothing personal, it just irritates me when I get an answer that doesn't refer to the question asked and then accuses me of ignorance.

As for the list of bands, aye some of them do approach the production/presentation standards, some of which, admittedly, I should've thought of. On the other hand, many don't, especially in terms of post production and presentation of the final product. Furthermore, and in addition to the original point, these bands certainly do not represent a development/movement unified enough to encourage the use of a sub-genre title. I suppose the question could be better refined to: Why is there not parallel development to Orthodox/Religious Black Metal in the field of Pagan Black Metal?

And aye, I'm aware of the limits of the term high-quality, hence the opening disclaimer/warning.

Metal / Re: Where is all the *high-quality* Pagan Black Metal?
« on: March 10, 2011, 02:33:40 AM »
All I can recommend is to listen to the first Falkenbach, and listen well and treasure it. You'll be hard-up finding any other 'Pagan' Black Metal bands in the aesthetic sense that you are looking for.
I've not heard them, I'll make a point of it. But my purpose here is not to get recommendations, although that is a welcome by-product, but to consider the phenomenon of the production/presentation aspect of Orthodox BM and how its exclusive to Satanic BM.

I think its part of a wider phenomenon of the marginalisation of Pagan BM, perhaps to do with its inevitable Nat Soc association, but also, I think, because Satanic themes are 'safe' and fairly reundant as a form of protest in a largely secular civilisation. Hence Satanic BM is more marketable and attracts higher production/presentation values to capitalise on its marketability. Any takers?

Metal / Re: Where is all the *high-quality* Pagan Black Metal?
« on: March 10, 2011, 02:16:49 AM »
You just haven't looked very hard. There are a shitload of bands out there that do the whole "pagan/nature/folk" thing (and most pagan black metal, like most orthodox/satanic black metal, simply sucks).
If you haven't read my post properly I'm not going to repeat myself here for the sake of your laziness. If you have read it properly but have posted incorrectly then, by all means, correct yourself and, if you would, I'd appreciate some examples.

Metal / Re: Looking forward
« on: March 09, 2011, 04:17:43 PM »
Perhaps metal itself has been exhausted as a vehicle for the metal-spirit? If noise could properly incorporate the heroic spirit then I think it would have the potential to produce something truly special. But, alas, most noise acts are content with the redundant rock-star come sex-offender guise.

On a different note, I would argue that, although we do need forward thinking, creative and original metal acts, I think that we also need solid practitioners of tried and tested successful metal methods. I know no one here is necessarily denying that but I think it often gets over-looked. We need Tyr as much as Odin, Mitra as much as Varuna, in order to maintain the proven and effective traditions.

Metal / Where is all the *high-quality* Pagan Black Metal?
« on: March 09, 2011, 03:54:10 PM »
The thread title is kind of misleading but stay with me here.

Recently I have been thinking about the Black Metal bands which have gained significant popularity recently and which more or less fall into the Orthodox/Religious Black Metal category, namely bands such as Deathspell Omega, Watain, Ofermod, Mortuus, Antaeus, Malign, Katharsis, Acrimonious, etc. (basically anything associated with Norma Evangelium Diaboli and Ajna Offensive). Now, I quite like a lot of this stuff but the point I want to highlight here is more to do with the quality of presentation that these bands share. I think that we can more or less agree, whether we personally like them or not, that these bands produce BM which is composed, performed, recorded, produced, and presented with a level of professionality, competency and clarity which heretofore was uncommon or perhaps even unheard of in BM. Leaving aside for the moment the debate as to whether this characteristic is at odds with the spirit of Black Metal, which I intend to start another thread on, I want to address the question of why we do not get as many (or any?) Pagan Black Metal bands approaching these high-standards of production/presentation? The only bands I can think of which come close are Fauna, Wolves in the Throne Room and Drudkh. Is there something inherent to the Satanic theme which has driven this development? Is it simply a case of Satanic Black Metal being more popular than its Pagan sibling, and hence attracting enough bands and enough fans (i.e. enough talent an enough cash) to drive higher standards or, perhaps, standards more typical of the overground Music Industry? Is Pagan Black Metal condemed to be the fodder of one-man, bedroom-recorded, CDr-produced, Nat Soc BM? I have to confess that I much prefer pagan themes to satanic ones, so I hope not.

Metal / Re: Bands that you want to see reviewed by DLA
« on: February 01, 2011, 02:15:49 AM »
More from the extreme punk side of things would be nice, such as; Discordance Axis, Hellbastard, Antisect, Siege, Man is the Bastard, Extreme Noise Terror, etc.

Also perhaps some of Antaeus's more recent records and maybe some of this 'orthodox black metal' material in general. I still don't know where I stand on the subject of 'orthodox black metal' myself.

Metal / Re: New Burzum album 2011 (Fallen)
« on: January 31, 2011, 01:03:01 PM »
Hmm, only listened to this four times (twice on speakers, twice on headphones) so far but I'm sad to say it has failed to hold my interest. The songs are all terribly formulaic which makes it fairly boring. The production/mixing doesn't help matters since drums and rhythm are too low with vocals and lead too high which means what little dynamism there is doesn't pack the punch it should. It said in the press release that they mixed the album as though it were a classical recording but I'm not sure if that decision is partially to blame because I don't really know what that means. Either way it can't explain the lazy composition. The five minute outro track is by far and away the most interesting music here, and even that kind of thing has been done many a time before by many neo-folk bands. I'm dead disappointed because I thought Belus was good and I was hoping Varg would pick-up some momentum and consolidate his come-back. Ah well. It'll be interesting to know if this is all new material or if, like Belus, some of it is old work only seeing the light of day now.

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