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Messages - fallot

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Interzone / Re: Practical law
« on: December 07, 2011, 05:56:50 PM »
Recreational drugs are already illegal and carry incredibly heavy punishments.  Alcohol and especially cigarettes are taxed and controlled.  Yet, the problems associated with these things remain fundamentally unaltered.  The only way something like this would work is if you actively created a community dead set against these things, all moved to a single region, and then highly restricted any movement into that region.  This is anything but practical.

A saner solution would be to localize this issue and allow regions to legalize drugs (etc.).  Let them deal with it in a manner they see fit.  People who want to do drugs will flock to regions with looser policies and most likely cease being a problem to small town folk who care so much about this.

As a matter of fact, if what was explicated became law, it may very well have the effect of acting as a magnet to major criminal organizations whose profits are contingent on the illegality of such things.  Counter-productivity at its worst.

Taken to its logical extent, applied to everything, this is thought which I feel is fragmentary to an unacceptable degree. I essentially agree with it, but the boundary cannot be too liberal. Small government shouldn't be too small. In the matter of drugs, some drugs are just objectively too harmful to be allowed. For those drugs (Heroin particularly), all you can do is harm reduction. This is also the role of a government, in my view. The right level of intervention.

Interzone / Re: Nihilism in action @ TED - 'The moral mind'
« on: December 07, 2011, 05:37:18 PM »
Sidereal, stating that is implied insult. I do not insult (I try :(). My moral fibre prevents it. If you mean it purely in an academic vein, I am aware, thanks bro.

That's not to say I can't kid about it though, so fuck yo momma.

Interzone / Re: Equality -- how can anyone believe this?
« on: December 07, 2011, 04:41:21 PM »
On the contrary, he is saying that this is what you are doing.

Interzone / Re: Equality -- how can anyone believe this?
« on: December 07, 2011, 03:44:22 PM »
"We might then say that metal music uses the language of beauty to describe darkness".

I'd put it the other way around...

Incidentally, so would I, but it serves the point nonetheless. I would have said it uses the language of darkness (subjective observation of objective) to describe (which is in itself a purely subjective action) beauty (a purely subjective quality).

Metal / Re: Islamic Metal - An Alternative View of Traditionalism
« on: December 07, 2011, 03:09:33 PM »
Often, so called "traditionalist" thought has caused the destruction of a lot of pagan knowledge. This is a grave error. Islam teaches the value of knowledge. The very Quran states that it is for the intelligent to understand. It exhorts one to seek knowledge. How can destruction of knowledge then be advocated? Nevertheless, this is a belief, it does not reflect a lot of reality. While Islam has, for prolonged periods, been very open in the sense of allowing (but severely restricting, obviously) other thought, there have also been instances where it has been destroyed. However, looking at the system and ideology; this is entirely why a system of "dhimmitude" even exists. It is a system for immigrant integration. At least, that is the spirit I believe it to be in.

So to answer you, in my belief, essentially, Islam advocates the rational expansion of knowledge, this includes the integration of pagan symbol in a rationalistic sense. However, as an exclusionary tradition, it cannot allow anything except itself to exist within it. Hence, it can and has destroyed Pagan tradition. It need not.

Edit: If you will forgive me any offense. Can I ask if that is indeed you tradition? A Pagan one? Do you hold, in essence, the value of the Pagan of that region? I don't mean to denigrate it, or question it, I am simply asking whether it is true. Is that your heritage, or do you actually live it? Is it your reality as well? Are you a real modern Pagan or derived from Paganism? My path allows for the flux of time, in this regard. However, perhaps yours does too, but I am initially somewhat questioning.

Metal / Islamic Metal - An Alternative View of Traditionalism
« on: December 07, 2011, 02:20:36 PM »
Some thoughts relating to my heritage:

In the tradition of Islam, there is a deep wisdom to be explored in terms of traditionality. It differs from Judaism and Christianity in emphasizing the essential tribal nature of man. Directly stating in the Quran that an external Agency has done so. I don't ask anyone to accept this, even though for me it is utter belief. However, I wish to make a case for an artistic justification for an extreme metal that derives from Islam (both geographically, i,e, in reality, and in ideology and symbolism).

There is a rich vein of profanity to be explored in Islam. There is a lot held sacred. However, Islamic Metal would present these profanities merely to inform. It would also emphasize absolute obeyment, tell tales of kings. Tell tales that are unmerciful. That reflect the realistic nature of the religion. Talk about the emphasis on family values by exposing the alternative version; profanity and destruction (perhaps, an oppressed son killing his father with intent inspired by intelligent evil). When it emphasizes war, it emphasizes "justice" (by its values, which it declares absolute). It would clearly state its intent. It would not profane the symbols of Islam directly; it would use inclusive terms (hence making necessary inclusive change, but I don't think this will reflect poorly on the art. It is somewhat similar to the classicists). No mention of Allah or the Prophet, but God and gods to be destroyed or exalted (by the evil). That would allow it to maintain an essentially Islamic nature while still exploring natural art in riff form.

The geographical spread of mainstream Islam can be divided into some major categories (though I admit to doing so somewhat arbitrarily). There is first the middle east, the Arabic culture. A culture of Bedouins (in terms of history, just moments ago). Lacking in material wealth but rich in understanding. Also of the past glory of Islamic civilization to which this metal would pine to return. The civilization of Baghdad, of early Islam, there are tons to explore. The Arab culture has its own subdivisions that can be emphasized under the broader Islamic vision; civilizations have existed and perished in Syria and Egypt (people already draw on this often, but mostly poorly, as a gimmick). Further along towards Africa you get a slightly different identity, infused with elements of African culture, which can be manipulated into cerebral music if it is vital in spirit. It should not naturally mean it is inferior to some "white" music. That strikes me as ascribing value for no reason, based on rather relative principles. Nevertheless, that is not the main thrust of my argument and I do not wish to engage anyone in this regard (you are welcome to question though, and I will attempt to answer if anyone wishes).

Towards Turkey, we find the Ottomans. Anyone would admit there is much to draw upon here. Sufism exists as a slightly differing ideology as well (still valid in terms of mainstream Islam), and can be explored; I think if it is genuine it can still be extreme, it is only when it is subverted by external gimmicks (hippies) that it becomes meaningless. Iran has a rich vein of Persian culture and post-Islamic culture. Afghanistan is mostly shit, but contributed the Mughals to India, so forth.

The Indians and Pakistanis especially, have a rich vein to draw from (my people). Indian classical music is sublime, and understands the nature of existence. Unlike the despicable Jazz, it is not process worship. It emphasizes a deeper something in structure. By doing so in structure it emphasizes that in meaning as well. It is reflective and powerful music. Nevertheless, it does not explore beyond what it believes to be "beautiful". Drawing from the riff, applying this philosophy, some of this technique; there is great potential here. Even in the sphere of Hinduism, the Vedas etc. which I assume would be more popular here as a supporting ideology.

Continuing on we see a distinct vein of asiatic Islam. Indonesia and Malaysia especially come to mind. These countries have maintained a lot of tradition in spite of Islam (ignorant people have often destroyed things they believe are harmful, without understanding). Any metal that comes out of here that is just directly subversive rings hollow because I have to ask exactly what they're fighting against? What do they want to return to with a rejection of society? Advocating rationalism to an absurd, all inclusive degree is directly against the spirit of metal. They can either find it in Islam or Paganism. The tradition of Islam is more knowledgeable, more informed, deeply philosophical. By merging these they can definitely create fine art.

There are the broad categories I would consider outside regional forms (Chechnya, Albania, Surinam et cetera). I wish I had the brush to bring these paintings to life, but I do not, and I use this message as a call to others who perhaps share my essential values and my love for metal despite them. Lets take it further than if the light takes us. Let the light take us (and the darkness).

P.S.: This is posted here out of academic interest. I fully intend to post it where it may be seen by those it is targeted at. Pakistani metal, my local metal, is mostly shit though. I've stayed far, far away. They have great, great ideas. Great musicality. There is enormous talent. You see stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXmIpbBOSvI and you think they get it; then it's revealed as cheap rock music. A lot of spirit is maintained here. The intent is good. I can see it blossoming, but the vision is absent. There has been too much turmoil to allow it to happen on its own. I don't want to argue this as an excuse for anything though! Coke Studio has generally been in a good vein and is worth exploring for the one who wishes to gain some understanding of the music of the region. It takes from a wide range of examples, many simple, many refined. It also has a distinctly popular bend though, naturally (look at the fucking name, compromises for quality) so a lot of the refinement is absent. Nevertheless, it's there, and its dark side can be explored.

Metal / Understanding Metal Complexity: Visual AIDS
« on: December 07, 2011, 01:20:26 PM »
I was listening to some stuff on youtube, some black metal and western classical (and indian classical, incidentally), and it occured to me how difficult it is to get people to understand complex melodies, or "phrase", whatever you call it. I say in advance that I lack a vocabulary in music, so I apologize if I ascribe the wrong word to something; I hope the meaning comes through. Anyway, there is a lot of western classical in a similar spirit (perhaps more refined in a sense) that emphasizes structure in the same way as some metal. I think that's widely agreed on here?

On youtube I was watching the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o and it occured to me how trivial it is to at least recognize each element as a separate musical "stream" when presented in this way. I wonder what the result would be if this was applied to a song like "Lost Wisdom", a simple and directly stated (yet deeply complex Edit: I should clarify, what it evokes is complex) black metal work. Should this be attempted in addition to purely academic notation? I believe it would assist in making people who are already interested take the next step into understanding. Perhaps people who wish to create their own works. Some people learn better through doing, some through seeing. I think it could be done, I don't know where to start going about it, thoughts?

Interzone / Re: Nihilism in action @ TED - 'The moral mind'
« on: December 07, 2011, 12:09:34 PM »
I definitely give a fuck about it academically, and to some degree with empathy. But that is because I am a healthy human being. I feel some here lack in empathy; not just in ignoring it when talking about greater matters but sorta overall. It would be obvious that with the ANUS message, such people would be preferably attracted. Or at least, that such sentiment would take root amongst people. Whichever way you want it.

Interzone / Re: Firefighters who won't fight for free
« on: December 07, 2011, 10:29:08 AM »
Some services of public good should be established by consensus at the expense of liberty. This is one of them.

No one is pleased by seeing someone come to harm unless their reason has damaged their nature (or the nature is flawed, they're fucking retarded). What I can do is recognize it as inevitable, recognize it as local, call the man a fool, the system not forceful enough, and the firefighters very concerned about their jobs.

Metal / Re: Stale
« on: December 07, 2011, 09:41:22 AM »
Not just understand the essence, live the essence. Feel the essence. Hipster metal cannot be good because it is derived from no values, or ones that do not resonate. I thank the gentlemen above for qualifying my statement for me.

The beauty of extreme metal is, imo, most keen when: 1) Message is "revelatory" (identified by the listener as deeply resonant, true) 2) Structure is revelatory (as it must be, since in metal structure is subservient to narrative). The opposite would be music that is expectation; applying both to verse/chorus popular music and modern droning meaningless black metal.

Interzone / Re: Feminism drives women crazy
« on: December 07, 2011, 09:10:48 AM »
If you agree with the website, then imo have children. Don't just say quality people should have children. Be a quality person and raise quality children. Raise wise children steeped in value, as much as you can.

Interzone / Re: It is possible to fight society
« on: December 07, 2011, 09:06:24 AM »
You can fight society locally. It is what anyone should do. Are you mentioning this to frame discourse on this site, telling us it is the end result of such thought/action? Without understanding, applied to a crowd, this is inevitable. Therefore if you exhort tradition (or morality, or w/e), you must also demonstrate it. The most local level is you. A man who believes is steadfast in belief at all times, he does not troll (except sometimes in jest of course), he does not say that which he does not believe in absolutely because he knows he is part of a whole.

Interzone / Re: Plato - Dialogues
« on: December 07, 2011, 06:59:14 AM »
I can't stand audiobooks but they can be beneficial for those who can divide their attention better than me. An Audiofile of philosophical works is attractive.

Interzone / Re: DLA 3.0
« on: December 07, 2011, 06:56:03 AM »
I've always stood by: Write what you yourself would want to seek out and read. Do not deliberately obscure. Do not deliberately simplify. Neither audience is important. The work is important.

Interzone / Re: Dark Legions Archive: The Book
« on: December 07, 2011, 06:50:58 AM »
I agree with the caveat that if that can't be done, we should settle with "blog-book, minus trolling" since that is still worthwhile.

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