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Messages - fallot

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Interzone / Re: Feminists HATE evolution/evolutionary psychology
« on: November 27, 2011, 02:37:41 PM »
Evolutionary psychology is often used as a crutch for preconception, so there may be some validity to the dislike. There is legitimate science, and then there is conjecture and non-sequiturs. The former you will find in publications dealing with science, the latter in ideological blogs and their literary kin. Too often, in non-scientific discussion, it boils down to "evolution did it, hence it is ultimate truth". The two traps I have encountered are "ascribing inherent value", which has been mentioned, and "ascribing purpose".

The current trend is adaptationist, mimicking biology, hence certain basic assumptions are required for the idea to work. However, we know little about how the mind actually works, or even what it really is (in empirically demonstrable terms). Less so even than we understand biology (we can break down mechanisms, but essence and the greater picture both remain elusive). That leaps of logic occur in these fields is valid criticism. The Gaia hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis) is a good example of such errors.

Amongst ideologues, attraction develops to hypotheses that do not conflict with their view of reality. The reverse effect can be observed (historically and currently) in the left, but I would attribute this to ignorance rather than some inherent opposition in modern times. People like Peter Singer (author of "A Darwinian Left") have a good approach. Taking the truth humanity learns and reaching one of many conclusions from it without regarding it as absolute. Such plasticity does not lend itself to philosophical discussion unless you want to argue a series of "What ifs".

Anyway, this article was extremey funny and argued that feminists are physically ugly and that they want to increase their perceived attractiveness by getting men to think that being attracted to slim, beautiful women is simply social engineering and not programmed in their genes.

A denial of the truth because of the well it springs from, essentially (joke or not). Modern men are indeed conditioned towards unrealistic expectations, and women are conditioned into bending to them. That element exists, we gain from acknowledging it. Taking it to an extreme and applying it for the furtherance of an ideology of universal equivalence is where the breakdown occurs. I was going to say it's ironic, but it's actually quite fitting.

I share your view. Merely possessing some absolute measure of intelligence means little. Some people just find it easier to think of things in terms of rigid quantification, perhaps the opposite idea gains traction that way. I do think that intellectual or academic intelligence (whatever you want to call it), is something that should be praised; partly just so that it may be allowed to refine itself. More relevant for pedagogy than a philosophical discourse anyway.

I don't agree with the notion expressed that "less wise" people absorb spiritual concepts very poorly. Rather, a lot of the mental "infrastructure" (in terms of learned things, experience) required to appreciate certain discourse is not naturally present, or remains uncultivated, in a portion of the population. If it is possible (and it is) to transmit the discourse, even using specifically crafted language, then some capability to understand must exist. This is more an argument for clarity of communication than for stratification of wisdom, but I do not deny the existence of a divide. They may not be able to appreciate them as easily, but essential truths beg to be expressed and understood.

Quote from: §Transcix
isn't it perfectly plausible to hypothesize those who are the wisest often have the least success coping with modern society and thus develop the gravest psychological ailments and appear for all intents and purposes to be some of the least wise?

That's quite a series of hypotheses! Let's see. Those who are wisest often have the least success coping with modern society: Debateable, I would question a definition of wisdom that allowed for inability to cope with society. That must be an element of wisdom.
Those who have little success in coping with society develop psychological ailments: Credible, but what do you mean by psychological ailments specifically?
People who have little success in coping with society appear to be less wise: See first.

Metal / Re: Black/punk
« on: November 26, 2011, 11:00:40 PM »
Wondering if anyone here could rec me some good blackpunx. I'm looking for a similar sound to Bone Awl, Syphilitic Vaginas, Ildjarn, etc.

I really don't know what the common thread is between Ildjarn and Syphilitic Vaginas, which is just a regular hardcore band. Are you looking for a certain abrasive sound? Black metal that emphasizes its punk roots? Try the Absurd album "Facta Loquntuur", the Ungod album "Circle of the Seven Infernal Pacts" and maybe Impaled Nazarene's "Ugra Karma". Sort Vokter's "Folkloric Necro-Metal" may provide more from the same font as Ildjarn.

If you're just looking to satisfy a sonic itch then Spear of Longinus and Thor's Hammer may appeal. The first has releases of quality and moments of clarity, the second is second-rate and best avoided.

Edit: Hellhammer is also very worth looking into.

Metal / Re: "dream like" black metal
« on: November 26, 2011, 08:31:11 PM »
Parts of Sorcier des Glaces - Snowland might qualify. Brilliant stuff.

Metal / Re: Good electronic music
« on: November 26, 2011, 07:32:31 PM »
Chemically induced ramblings:

Interesting that the Dead can Dance song linked is one with a very positive message. Decoded; The Power We Entrust In Love, Advocated. The lyrics are a literal advocation of the power of love as a solution;

"The way lies through our love;
there can be no other means to the end,
or keys to my heart...
you will never find.
You will never find!"

A wonderful pick too, this is a great song.

The inevitable Beherit link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qKGgFLv8hk

There is intelligence and worth everywhere if you look for it. To withdraw is not a sign of strength. I praise ascetics who avoid humanity so that they may delve deeper into their minds without distraction, but I do not praise the ones guided by misanthropy.

Travel and the internet have both been good tools for this, exposing me to a breadth of experience so that I may no longer deny the value in a great many things. Looking beyond surface layers is good (essential), but not if you get stuck 1 layer deep. If you truly cannot survive, leave. Migrate. Change the course of your life.

It's strange for me to see and read these experiences, I grew up in an environment where I was told even as a child that the modern world was a dysfunctional trap; this was a common view. Talking about the poor state of humanity is to people from the subcontinent like talking about weather.

Interzone / Re: "The poor": kill them
« on: November 24, 2011, 02:34:24 PM »
As a sweeping statement, this is utter bollocks.  I feel no "compassion" when I see the vast majority of humans suffer; any "compassion" in me is reserved for my family and friends, and others who seem that they would fit into the latter group.

What quality can we therefore surmise some people possess for you to empathize with them or feel compassion for them? That you know them? Is it something more than that? I can't completely absorb this point of view and see it from your perspective, I am bothered by injustice and suffering in general as well as unwarranted cruelty, but I would like to see it as you do (from you). I have always felt that this is a quality that one should inculcate in themselves, it is a part of being a healthy human being, a quality of Kings. My guess is that a part of it comes from seeing other people as competing entities rather than a part of a human whole or from ignorance of circumstance (and unwillingness, not inability, to put yourself in another's shoes) but this may be wholly inaccurate.

Without meaning to imply anyone here is a sufferer, Asperger's has been described as having an "ultra male" mind. One of its defining traits is a pathological lack of empathy (such that it inhibits the appreciation of social cues that rely on this). Can one possible inference be that at least at some minimum level it is a worthwhile quality?

Interzone / Re: Chomsky
« on: November 23, 2011, 12:39:07 PM »
To accept those innate qualities as the be-all end-all is exactly as nonsensical as to deny them completely. The problem of genius extends to both. Mutation is a part of Evolution.

Epigenetics also presents an interesting addition to what might be considered "innate" qualities

Marcus Pembrey and colleagues also observed in the Överkalix study that the paternal (but not maternal) grandsons [48] of Swedish men who were exposed during preadolescence to famine in the 19th century were less likely to die of cardiovascular disease; if food was plentiful then diabetes mortality in the grandchildren increased, suggesting that this was a transgenerational epigenetic inheritance.[49] The opposite effect was observed for females—the paternal (but not maternal) granddaughters of women who experienced famine while in the womb (and therefore while their eggs were being formed) lived shorter lives on average.

Epigenetic inheritance is the transmittance of information from one generation to the next that affects the traits of offspring without alteration of the primary structure of DNA (i.e., the sequence of nucleotides) or from environmental cues.


Non-genetic variation and inheritance is common, and is affected by the environment. Taking a cue from a discussion in another thread, environmentally heritable characteristics could present in ways such as a population being exposed to calorie overload; up-regulating or creating genetic patterns favoring storage of these calories (and hence obesity). Literally, making you prone to be fat even though your great-grandparents may be fine. Also a characteristic that later down-regulates in the absence of the environmental stimulus, sometimes within 3 generations. Be careful what you identify as innate.

Interzone / Re: The problem is not all of us
« on: November 23, 2011, 02:40:05 AM »
What is your point of view anyway?

Quote from: §Transcix
We agree on so many things. The importance and beauty of the environment. The problem of over-consumption. A disdain for simple-minded distractions. A dislike of hypocrisy, fake-ness and mainstream society. A passionate and determined desire to attack life head-on. A fundamental conviction that a successful life takes root  at deeper philosophical or spiritual levels rather than on the surface.

Well said.

Interzone / Re: Chomsky
« on: November 22, 2011, 10:11:35 PM »
Perhaps he simply believes that this is not an insurmountable variation. Not necessarily nonsensical.

Metal / Re: Bands worth hearing thread
« on: November 22, 2011, 08:44:45 PM »
The stripped down phrases of Vallenfyre on "A Fragile King" are putting me off somewhat, many of these are used in very familiar contexts as well (in addition to the Swedish sound). The overall effect is convincing in terms of narrative, as mentioned. The technique is used effectively to craft atmospheric death metal. Worth hearing for the high points, even though some elements can be an unwelcome intrusion.

Edit: Not all songs suffer from the issue mentioned. A part of this is probably the nature of the narrative, completely recursive and circular; deliberately so. Exemplified on the (standout) track Seeds. The final track deviates somewhat, but similarly illustrates the method (and is another standout track). It also showcases the pure, beautiful pop sensibilities of some of the melody this band possesses.

Edit #2: Fleeting pleasures, I am left mostly unimpressed. It's okay. Perhaps the future holds better works.

Interzone / Re: The Dictatorship of the Intelligent
« on: November 22, 2011, 05:50:50 PM »
The Intelligent vs. The Religious vs. The Political. It sounds a bit foolish phrased this way.

What are the proclivities of the intelligent men themselves? Can they not be religious, or of a political bent? This is another fool whose vision of the world is restricted to what surrounds him, seeing a fucked up world but applying a personal dogma to it. Quantifying human worth seems simple when you are naive, but when you actually meet people of worth who don't fit handily into a convenient grouping... what then? Can you truly speak this way when you cannot ever be certain that what you promote may be a great wrong? Let the weak die in the chaos? Even Mr. Saxon would cry out if his family and friends were judged similarly unworthy. And surely they would be, surely this is what he speaks of without understanding. You cannot ignore the individual and you cannot ignore basic humanity. These should be basic precepts no matter which solution appeals to you, no matter what ideology. Speak in terms of qualities that the best man should possess.

The words about individual security and betterment are truth and are appreciated, as are the ones about our impending doom.

Interzone / Re: "The poor": kill them
« on: November 22, 2011, 01:23:47 AM »
My thrust is that this is an impossible task, requiring such clarity of human communication that the mere conference of this ability would provide a solution to nearly every human ill. It seems extremely difficult even for an individual case. How this would be accomplished  on the level of humanity itself I cannot even begin to consider. However, pursuing an answer in this vein may still be a noble endeavour. I will not reject it merely because it seems superhuman to me, but I don't believe it is an answer. The intent I cannot fault. If you make headway in this regard, I would be extremely interested.

Interzone / Re: Please be nice.
« on: November 21, 2011, 11:15:31 PM »
Listen you pompous idiot; kill yourself now before the world has to suffer another of your vaguely philosophical monologues. It's apparently not possible to get rid of you with insult, why don't you just do everyone a favor and fuck off to a place where you will be accepted (like the grave)? This is a post that belongs on a Christian special-interest forum, not a temple to black art. If you're unable to tolerate a little invective thrown your way, you are probably incapable of appreciating many of the arguments here anyway.

Interzone / Re: "The poor": kill them
« on: November 21, 2011, 11:02:33 PM »
The intent to insult was quite clear, however I am genuinely curious about the meaning.

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