The DLA "scene": users' own compositions

[Andrew]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with your music?

[Forza Romana]

Just my own mastery of the guitar and my artform..

[lord.aspie]

A bit unrelated, but I am a big fan of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series as well!

Although it becomes more like a soap opera as the series progresses, I very much enjoy the world he created with his books.

[Andrew]

Just my own mastery of the guitar and my artform..

I don't like it.  It doesn't connect with me on any level.  There is no atmosphere, the guitar playing is nothing special, the melodies just feel pointless and robotic, the drums are obviously minimalist, but unsuccessfully in that their cheapness is immediately noticeable (and doesn't contribute anything to the song like trance-inducing black metal percussion), and without the vocals it sounds like little more than an unfinished mediocre death metal song.  Were you inspired when you made this?  If not, if this is just mastery of a skill for you, why are you showing it to anyone?  I might just not be getting it... I'm sure I must have a different relationship with music than you do.  If you think I'm dead wrong in my reaction then please try and explain it to me.

[Cargést]

I might just not be getting it...

Most likely, although I'll leave it to him to explain why in his own terms.  Personally, I like the overt use of counterpoint, and other aspects of music theory generally obscure to composers of Metal (though I also like the sound, but for the basic and unchanging drums).

[Forza Romana]

For the most part when I share my process of writing, I believe this is a great social interaction with the members. This to me is important, not as someone that needs or craves a social interaction, but if I am to choose who i interact with it certainly will be with the members here. Call me honor bound indeed, but not a fool....

As far as the music is concerned this was a spur of the moment creation of mine. i just replaced my motherboard after a month of not having my computer running to par.  The drums are what I always seek to improve, and I wish I had a live drum set as I am proficient enough to play what I would like to.

Indeed my relationship with music is different as I just let the music flow from me as naturally as I can. Nothing is forced, but with my music theory training I am able to add things in a more concise way if I was not able to have the training. Counterpoint was one lesson that has stuck with me for many years that i have been writing.

And as equally as I support Cargést, I am ever indebted to his critical analysis of my compositions..

And yes the wheel of time series is a great book, in which I also enjoy reading. I also find it interesting to note that as he was a christian himself, he also used a lot of other religious wanderings as well, and I feel that he does not let his own background dictate this book.

[MLK]

I'm with Andrew, theres nothing much for me in it. Its clearly not complete and just judging what is there it lacks whats needed to make it a worthwhile listening experience. I dont know what Cargést is talking about in terms of counterpoint, as strictly speaking there isn't really much in there (the one instance there is a vague sense of the implied counterpoint that Slayer do), there is a separation of voices at times but it's fleeting and they still feel like they're essentially parts of the same riff/cell/idea rather than diverging into separate lines with separate rhythm and melodic direction. all the riffs are of pretty much the same length and cadence as you expect, theres no dramatic arc, no transitionary riffs and the drum-loops constant emphasis on beats 1 and 3 kind of gives it a vaguely tough-guy rock feel, but even that falls kind of flat.

Positively theres some cool riff ideas in there, so rather than throw it out, work on it. Now you know what doesnt work about it, fix that up and come back with the piece.
Sit and really listen with a critical ear to some death metal masterpieces for a while and try to get a handle of what it is that makes them work the way they do (Immolation, Morbid Angel, Obituary would be a good place to start). Complete the piece, work on it, don't keep starting pieces, not finishing them and posting them on here without any strong idea why you're doing so. Consider whats in it for your listeners - what can they get communicated to them by listening to your work.

[Cargést]

Other tracks he's put up there use counterpoint, moreso than this one.  In fact, if I remember correctly, one of them was purely an exercise in counterpoint.

[Forza Romana]

I always take criticism these days with an open mind. Also to speak up for myself, I can not stress enough my music theory training and maybe what I am playing is not being understood in those terms of theory.  

You make a great point of listening to the classics, and studying the way the compose their songs. I have mentioned that my collection is small but strong, and i have admitted not listening to all the classics that I should have. I believe I do myself good and bad by doing this. I do listen to a lot of music daily but not so much that I use that influence in my music. In a way since I am influenced by the old world ways of Italian culture, I see how I use major and minor thirds, which are also used in Italian folk music. i have been using those major and minor thirds a lot in my playing for the last five years of playing, and when I began my Italian folk music studies I stumbled upon this development. As it where I do use my cultural background and musical ear for my writing.

Worthy to note is the songs I have created are complete for my sense of direction and focus, and may not be understood by any. As I have mentioned, I rather share my process here with worthy members of this board, rather then the shallowness in which other boards seem to allow.

And in closing and in friendly spirit of things, I do challenge any one to do the same. Educate me as well in composing or structure. Give example of what you would do. Record them, and outline the idea. I seek knowledge  everyday with vigor!

And yes some examples I have recorded  are purely an exercise in training or giving ideas as to what people ask. Instead of looking at a piece of paper, why not record an example and use it in the metal form? I have not seen any one else lately to this to share ideas or to educate. Maybe my pride is too excessive in this thought, but when it comes to theory I studied hard for it. Now, the trick is to apply it in a manner suited for my vision.

[Forza Romana]

Ah, and to add in the friendly spirit this day, I challenge anyone else to share those ideas. Record them, and outline them. This is knowledge that I am willing to learn.

[Forza Romana]

Thanks for those great references. And so  I added At the gates to my music library.


Here I worked on this piece and added bass to it as well. The bass is my fathers and adds such a great sound to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wz1atvYKNI

[Forza Romana]

And I notice that the challenge goes unheeded.....

[Andrew]

And in closing and in friendly spirit of things, I do challenge any one to do the same. Educate me as well in composing or structure. Give example of what you would do. Record them, and outline the idea. I seek knowledge  everyday with vigor!

Are you asking us to fix your song or are you asking us to explain in depth how we approach our own music?  

[Forza Romana]

I would like to know how others approach music in terms of the metal format. I did indeed listen to At the Gates, all of it, and I was very impressed, and of course I should have listened to this earlier. Interesting there was a riff in there that is similar to the one I recently used. I do not know what that would tell you but thus there it is....

[lord.aspie]

I would like to know how others approach music in terms of the metal format.

this is how I craft metal:

1. Sit with my guitar for many hours playing around with riffs. This is the biggest part of my process: playing my instrument and creating sounds that get me off.
2. Sort riffs by contrast, similarity, and how well they "fit" together. This is where the patterns start emerging. I make "blocks" of 2 or more riffs that fit together, and scribe them down. This is the bulk of what I work with when "composing" (LOL).
3. When inspiration comes, make a song "diagram" that has the ideas and feelings that I want the music to convey along with a few broad technical notes, and words (for vocals) that convey a certain meaning, atmosphere or experience witch relates to what needs to be expressed. Usually the words influence the progression and development of the songs in ways that are hard to describe.
4. work with "riff blocks" and diagram. This is a trial and error process, stuff gets radically changed and evolves. New ideas emerge, sometimes changes the initial plan dramatically.

I am interested in learning how others craft songs, although I can imagine it is something quite similar to what I do. However, not knowing anything about theory makes everything I do totally intuitive. I see the benefit in learning about compositional techniques, but most of this I "learn" from listening to fucking awesome music and paying attention to what methods they use to craft atmosphere. Theory isn't altogether important in metal IMO despite what others in this forum will tell you. Whats more important is intuition and natural logic.