What will quantum physics research do to Atheism?

[Cargést]

We have no proof at all of the physical realm.  I'm more interested in what is knowably real (the mind/consciousness) than in what is clearly illusory, however perfectly it might represent what may or may not be "out there".

Though, of course, I live day to day as if this physical reality were real.  It's more fun that way : )

[analrapist]

I hope science proves that Satan is in control

[Wolfgang]

I hope science proves that Satan is in control

The Bible already did in 2 Corinthians 4:4

Sabbath later confirmed this.

[indjaseemun]

In my experience most of us are in the middle. I'm neither a theist nor an atheist. One thing I don't believe in is unicorns and God talking directly to man. If God's out there, it's as a force we tap into, not a personality. Atheism is bleak but I really hate Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. They are self-righteous and generally liberal religions that mislede people who waste half their lives trying to make the plastic statue of Jesus happy.

http://aryan-buddhism.blogspot.com

You might want to check this out, it will interest you about what you said about buddhism.

---

Concerning atheism:

To the ignorant materialistic atheist, and possible expert in objective reality, the metaphysician must declare to such a one as him that “you, while competent in your myopic study of existential things, causes, effects and temporal phenomena; are wholly unschooled in the arena of metaphysics both in whole and in part and therefore should not step, like the proverbial fish out of water, into the denial and speculation upon Subjective metaphysics simply due to your myopic litmus test of rejecting anything both in whole or in part due to a lack of objective investigation into that thing. By logic alone, there is no measuring the Measurer nor is there objective proof for metaphysical subjects anymore so than there is objective proof of your love of your wife or mother.” It is the case that a proud materialist (metaphysical atheist) has made a sort of sick religion out of physicalism. It is ironic that Atheists in general will declare they “merely deny God/gods”, however this is almost never the case, for these same atheists also lump the soul, the Absolute and all uncompounded Subjective Beings, and the notion of a Subjective substrate to phenomena as “unreal, equally as asinine as God, etc.”. The irony lies not in their denial of God/gods, but their vociferous refusal to delve into their other rejection, that of metaphysical subjects; for them, if they are pressed, will equally and soundly denounce the soul and metaphysics as “equally insane voodoo on par with that of a creationist God”.  

Atheists, in the profundity of their mental incompetence and impotency have lumped metaphysics into the arena of religious nonsense and ritualism. As is true the empty and absurdity as often found in and amongst all the worlds religions and its nonsensical self-sacrifice to the will and conformity of a supreme diety (Creationism in all forms). The Atheists has ignorantly declared religion and metaphysics to be equally absurd pursuits. However all religions are aught more than secular popularizations and missunderstandings of the metaphysicians of ancient, in such case the Atheist in this instance is right in his attack of “opium of the masses” that is religion both in whole and in part.


from http://aryan-buddhism.blogspot.com.br/2012/03/real-reason-atheists-are-profane.html

[Wolfgang]

In my experience most of us are in the middle. I'm neither a theist nor an atheist. One thing I don't believe in is unicorns and God talking directly to man. If God's out there, it's as a force we tap into, not a personality. Atheism is bleak but I really hate Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. They are self-righteous and generally liberal religions that mislede people who waste half their lives trying to make the plastic statue of Jesus happy.

http://aryan-buddhism.blogspot.com

You might want to check this out, it will interest you about what you said about buddhism.

---

Concerning atheism:

To the ignorant materialistic atheist, and possible expert in objective reality, the metaphysician must declare to such a one as him that “you, while competent in your myopic study of existential things, causes, effects and temporal phenomena; are wholly unschooled in the arena of metaphysics both in whole and in part and therefore should not step, like the proverbial fish out of water, into the denial and speculation upon Subjective metaphysics simply due to your myopic litmus test of rejecting anything both in whole or in part due to a lack of objective investigation into that thing. By logic alone, there is no measuring the Measurer nor is there objective proof for metaphysical subjects anymore so than there is objective proof of your love of your wife or mother.” It is the case that a proud materialist (metaphysical atheist) has made a sort of sick religion out of physicalism. It is ironic that Atheists in general will declare they “merely deny God/gods”, however this is almost never the case, for these same atheists also lump the soul, the Absolute and all uncompounded Subjective Beings, and the notion of a Subjective substrate to phenomena as “unreal, equally as asinine as God, etc.”. The irony lies not in their denial of God/gods, but their vociferous refusal to delve into their other rejection, that of metaphysical subjects; for them, if they are pressed, will equally and soundly denounce the soul and metaphysics as “equally insane voodoo on par with that of a creationist God”.  

Atheists, in the profundity of their mental incompetence and impotency have lumped metaphysics into the arena of religious nonsense and ritualism. As is true the empty and absurdity as often found in and amongst all the worlds religions and its nonsensical self-sacrifice to the will and conformity of a supreme diety (Creationism in all forms). The Atheists has ignorantly declared religion and metaphysics to be equally absurd pursuits. However all religions are aught more than secular popularizations and missunderstandings of the metaphysicians of ancient, in such case the Atheist in this instance is right in his attack of “opium of the masses” that is religion both in whole and in part.


from http://aryan-buddhism.blogspot.com.br/2012/03/real-reason-atheists-are-profane.html

Translation - atheists is dumb cause they laugh at goofy philosophical loop holes theists and superstitious tabulate as they stare into the utter precipice, trying desperately to tie a loophole around a limb. That precipice being the fundamental truth that there is no God, no soul, no nothing. Truths that are so near absolute and based in circumstantial, philosophical and empirical evidence acting in concert that it would be almost wholly impossible for an objective observer with no preconceived notions of any mystical faith to ever argue against in a heated or serous way. atheists is dumb.

[lost_wanderer]

"the fundamental truth that there is no God, no soul, no nothing." How can you be so sure about that? Maybe you're right but what is the proofs of that? To my knowledge, there is no evidences in science about it.  If you can't back it  up with proofs, your argument have the same weight of someone who believes in God.

[NHA]

The power of self delusion can be significant. Its just extremely difficult to effectively harness it as a practical tool to enhance your ability to interface with the world around you while at the same time preventing yourself from being consumed by it and understanding any wide reaching consequences it might have.

Your perception of an event is what gives meaning to it therefore you ultimately have full control of its effects on you. The problem is the logical part of the mind can't be lied to by itself and its influence over the intuitive/emotional part is great.

There seems to be ways to bypass the logical centers and strike directly at the intuition though. If you take clinical hypnosis for example: actively resist its effects with your rational thought and it makes it impossible to be put under. An interesting experiment is to try to get yourself drunk off regular tea. If you do it at night when you're already kind of groggy and your ability to think rationally is blunted. Create a source of fire (it has a hypnotizing effect) and use unusual containers for the tea to attach a delusional notion of importance to them. Add drama to your actions and act like an occultist or fanatic. You're forcing a placebo effect.

You can enhance your perception of events in the same way people lie when recounting past stories just to make them more interesting. This type of lie is completely justified because the function of the story is to entertain the audience. Recently i visited this place at 3am during a rainstorm:

The buildings rise in three stages up the side of a cliff on the right bank of the river, which here runs between rocky walls 400 ft. in height. Flights of steps ascend from the lower town (tier1) to the churches (t2), a group of massive buildings half-way up the cliff. The chief of them is the pilgrimage church of Notre Dame, containing a cult image at the center of the site's draw.

Here the darkness is a catalyst. The fear of possible or imagined dangers concealed by the darkness always exist in the primitive mind. The rational mind steps in and provides context to reassure that any fear is unfounded in this scenario. But that is kind of boring so instead i provoked the fear by letting my imagination run away with it. The darkness now contains demons and that huge fucking stray dog i saw 15 minutes ago was a werewolf and now there might be more in the cave up ahead. The rain, darkness and severe gothic architecture are now in conspiracy to oppress me. The corpses in the crypt of the church below my feet are probably wandering the halls. So the brain takes all this in and decides to dump a delicious cocktail of chemicals into the blood enhancing the situation even further. So eventually i manage to get to the top of the cliff in the complete dark without tripping over my own shoelaces and end up being completely butthurt that there was no vampire waiting for me to drive a stake through.

Another amusing trick is to give yourself motion sickness through a perception shift. Stare at the ground and imagine that your skull is the center of the universe and is stationary and unable to move. Imagine any movement as being the result of the universe spinning around your stationary skull. Now rotate your head back and forth. Puke.

So how does any of this stupid delusional shit relate to your ability to interface with reality? By juggling contexts and shifting perception you can effectively manipulate your primal reactions to stimuli - it doesn't even matter if the context is bullshit as long as it has a functional use. If we were to connect this with that other thread about the cave dwelling aspergers case you could provide some useful tricks in dealing with women. Lets say you just bumped into your concept of the ideal woman. If your natural reaction is to perceive her as a goddess you've just shot yourself in the foot - the only thing a mortal can do to a god is grovel and worship. Now if you decide to view her as rape bait you've just made things way easier on yourself.

Delusional thinking may be a crutch but a crutch is a very useful tool for the gimp.

[Wolfgang]

"the fundamental truth that there is no God, no soul, no nothing." How can you be so sure about that? Maybe you're right but what is the proofs of that? To my knowledge, there is no evidences in science about it.  If you can't back it  up with proofs, your argument have the same weight of someone who believes in God.

Stop it. The absence of evidence is clear evidence of its absence.  Every pre scientific understanding or conception of God has been disproved by science. We know the big bang does not need god. We know the origin of life does not need god. We know the bible was crafted rather imperfectly by nationalist Canaanites from a bunch of preexisting myths and was not created by god. We can find no evidence of any super natural processes, nor can we find any evidence of any natural processes that cannot exist without super natural ones. We even know why religion and god concepts evolved in our species.

The only evidence for the existence of these things, is the belief in these things.

Faith is not evidence.

[crow]

Did you never walk into a dark room, and be unable to know what was in it?
"There is nothing there!" you decide.
Are you correct to believe this?
Or did you lack a means of illumination?
Perhaps the concept of illumination is unknown to you, and so you might be excused.
Or do you not only lack the concept, but also the concept of there being a concept?

[Wolfgang]

Did you never walk into a dark room, and be unable to know what was in it?
"There is nothing there!" you decide.
Are you correct to believe this?
Or did you lack a means of illumination?
Perhaps the concept of illumination is unknown to you, and so you might be excused.
Or do you not only lack the concept, but also the concept of there being a concept?

This angle interests me. Expand on this. How am I unable to know what is in there?

[crow]

Lack of light?
Maybe you are not familiar with light?
It helps you see.

[Wolfgang]

Lack of light. As I thought. Illumination is faith basically.

"Did you never walk into a dark room, and be unable to know what was in it?
"There is nothing there!" you decide.
Are you correct to believe this?
Or did you lack a means of illumination? "

I form my opinions based on observable evidence and reason. To explain it with this model, I already knew the room to be empty earlier in the day. I close the door, and sit at my desk in the ajoining room for a few hours. I know no one came in or out. I covered the only entrance. I do not need illumination to know there is still nothing in that room, as the evidence I have already points to that. If I open the door, and cannot see inside the room, then I cannot know for certain it is empty, but it is a strong likelihood. The likelihood something magically appeared inside the dark room while I was at my desk is as likely as any other magic.

Live in the real world.

[crow]

Your 'real world'?
No thanks.
I lived there before I knew anything.

[Veritas]

Though, of course, I live day to day as if this physical reality were real.  It's more fun that way : )

What are our alternatives?

[Cargést]

Willfull negligence.