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August 16, 2013, 12:34:56 PM
Are you atheists? If not, what are your belief, are you pluralists? What is your religion?

Re: Spiritualism
August 16, 2013, 12:37:39 PM
I am a maggot, but I think I am a king.

Re: Spiritualism
August 16, 2013, 02:52:32 PM
Every time I think I've figured out what I really am, I meet someone who identifies with the same perspective and is a total knob. Therefore I do not identify.

Re: Spiritualism
August 16, 2013, 03:06:33 PM
I recognize that. Your solution is probably the best interim arrangement.

Re: Spiritualism
August 17, 2013, 09:14:37 AM
Actually, I have no religion. But I have a rather distinct spirituality that advises every thought and action.
You could call it Dharma: the way things work. Or Reality: aka 'God'.
But in religious terms, an ever-changing combination of taoist, jain and shaman.

Re: Spiritualism
August 17, 2013, 12:16:13 PM
Taoism makes very much sense to me, but not in the way that buying a ten-year-old Honda "makes sense" because it is practical. It makes sense in such a way that I can't actually speak it or think it through with words or even imagination. I have personally experienced exactly what Tao means, but my mind cannot willfully return to the position in which it was comprehensible. I really only have one symbol of the brief moments of non-perception/non-judgement/non-ontological being-everything that I slipped into and knew Tao; I meditate on the thought "infinity equals zero" and I am partially back in that position.

That is probably all far too personal to make sense of, but if I have a religion or if I worship anything, it can only begin to be expressed by "infinity equals zero". It applies to mind, emotion, time, space and more complex dimensionality, thoughts, logic, love, ego, purpose, and causality. Maybe some day I can explain it, but I doubt it. Expressing it with words renders it impure and warped.

Re: Spiritualism
August 17, 2013, 12:25:49 PM
I guess synthesis is an important aspect of it too. What appear to be forces-in-conflict actually become larger forces on a broader scale, and their existence is entirely contingent on those lower-level forces-in-conflict. As soon as you think the whole system is harmonious and complete, you find another system in conflict with it, and so you try to synthesize those two forces into another all-encompassing harmonious force. But, as soon as you do that, you find that new conflict has sprung up, and you must try to synthesize everything into another all-encompassing whole. The cycle continues indefinitely. It defines every system in our universe.

This fractalizing amplification of forces and systems is the underlying principle of existence. The complexity is infinite but we still try to fit it into a single thing (god or "universe" or "reality"), yet as soon as we do we find more apparent conflict springing up. So, since this process is infinite, we might as well count it all as impossible to number. So, infinity equals zero.

Re: Spiritualism
August 17, 2013, 12:34:13 PM
I'm going to delve even deeper into incomprehensibility and try to illustrate my... whatever... one more time. Draw yourself the classic Taijitu circle. Both of the little circles within the main circle are also Taijitu circles. Those circles have their own two more Taijitu circles each. Repeat forever.

That's really the most elegant way I could describe it. Like I said, words are mostly useless.


Re: Spiritualism
August 17, 2013, 12:44:49 PM
I was raised a post Vatican II Catholic. In my adulthood I have come to recognize myself as an aspiring Traditional Catholic. I went through "atheism", "scientism", "New Age", "Hinduism", "Esoteric Hitlerism", and "Paganism" and while I found them helpful in guiding me, I find myself drawn to the Mysteries of Catholicism, to the idea of the Church Militant, to the historical precedent of religious military orders,i.e., Templars, to the writings of the Church Fathers and to the fact that much of what was noble in pagan European thought was retained in Catholicism. The Lord of the Rings and the writings of Tolkien have also played a vital role in my re-evaluation of Catholicism. I suppose my Irish/French ancestry also predisposed me towards Catholicism in the first place. In addition, I think Catholicism represents the last living bastion of genuine Tradition in Europe, if Catholicism can be saved from itself it could provide a defence against all that is decadent in modern Europe.

My beliefs: Man is fallen, his salvation lies in a conformity to a providentially ordered and enchanted universe. Through prayer, piety, Love and metaphysics one attains an understanding of unltimate reality and conforms his will to that reality.

Re: Spiritualism
August 17, 2013, 12:52:40 PM
for me God is the Mystery. If he was a number, he would be the number zero. Zero being the number beyond all numbers.

Re: Spiritualism
August 17, 2013, 04:24:03 PM
The Maker of all human beings is recalling all units manufactured, regardless of make or year, due to the serious defect in the primary and central component of the heart. This is due to a malfunction in the original prototype unit code named Adam and Eve, resulting in the reproduction of the same defect in all subsequent units.

This defect has been technically termed “Subsequential Internal Non- Morality” or more commonly known as SIN, as it is primarily characterized by loss of moral judgment. Some other symptoms are:

    Loss of direction
    Foul vocal emissions
    Amnesia of origin
    Lack of peace and joy
    Selfish or violent behavior
    Depression or confusion in mental component

The manufacturer, who is neither liable or at fault for this defect, is providing factory authorized repair and service FREE of charge to correct the SIN defect. [The number to call in your area is F-A-I-T-H. Simply believe that Christ died for your sins, was buried and rose again, and your unit will be regenerated. No matter how big or small the SIN defect is, Christ will repair and replace it with]:


Please see operating manual HOLY BIBLE for further details on the use of these fixes. [See sections I Cor. 15:1-4; Eph. 1:7; and Gal. 5:16-26].

WARNING: Continuing to operate the human unit without correction voids the manufacturer’s warranty, exposing the owner to dangers and problems too numerous to list and will result in the human unit being permanently impounded. [For free emergency service before it’s too late: call upon the Lord Jesus Christ who loved us and gave Himself a ransom for our sins].

DANGER: The human units not receiving this recall action will have to be scrapped in the furnace.

This action was authorized by the Creator.

Re: Spiritualism
August 17, 2013, 05:09:32 PM
In addition, I think Catholicism represents the last living bastion of genuine Tradition in Europe, if Catholicism can be saved from itself it could provide a defence against all that is decadent in modern Europe.

In my view a lot of European Catholics certainly measure up to this, but the Catholic Church itself seems to have lost its way even though a lot of good remains. There is undue focus on the global south, which comes with a skewed view on immigration issues, with not much effort spent in correcting heterodox beliefs and leftist (read: anti-Christian) worldviews. No, they are just happy they have a lot of adherents somewhere in the world. Instead of being a spiritual leader, the Church turns into a club or corporation with a consumer bent. Vatican II was a disaster and the accomodationist bent of the current Pope is not heartening.

Then there is the matter of homosexual infiltration of the priesthood. It only barely ever pops up in the mainstream media, even though Francis himself has commented on the controversy. It is credible now that there exists a cabal of gay priests who support each other and overall work together to undermine the Church by shaping it towards ends they believe to be positive. It may seem paradoxical that gay men would join in the first place but a celibate priesthood would potentially be very attractive for the `religious` homosexual man who wishes to stay on the down low; perhaps mated with the belief that they can change the institution on the inside. Naturally there is overlap with the paedophilia scandal, but considering homosexuality and male paedophilia together is verboten!

The existence of SSPX does make me optimistic though, and some of the most positive and well thought out commentary on modernity comes from Catholics. The track record of the Catholic Church in Europe is also a strong argument in their favour. It is the only hope of a revival of Christianity in Western Europe and I think it will heal in the long run, though I can only see things getting worse in the short term.

Re: Spiritualism
August 18, 2013, 01:56:41 PM
genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


If I read it correctly, the Christian and jewish God is in fact several ones.  How do you interpret it?

Re: Spiritualism
August 18, 2013, 02:31:17 PM
Written by a man, it can not be wholly true.
But for a man to write it, in the first place, there must have been truth in it.
Even at one remove - being read by another - the truth in it becomes obscured.
Being translated, rewritten, and re-read, it becomes, at best, a metaphor.

Apart from that:
The Creation, being One. The one aware of the Creation, being another.
'I' or 'It' becomes 'us' or 'we'.

Re: Spiritualism
August 18, 2013, 03:06:25 PM
god created heaven and earth. But not hell. Do hell not exist or hell as been created on earth after the fall of man?