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Velvet Cacoon Interview

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 09, 2004, 10:05:52 AM
And I thought the whole world had gone mad.

About the only thing Genevieve has going for it is the way the band's reliance on the guitar tone makes it closely resemble "real" ambient music at points.  And you could argue about how much of an achievement that is.  Or how unique a quality that is.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 09, 2004, 10:47:17 AM
I don't see the logic in claiming the band is trying too hard when your only backup for such a statement is an 'effort from an internet community'. It's something to blame the fans for, not the band. I don't follow any internet communities very close so I'm not aware of any pretentions, although it seems like a grasp to find something to insult?

My take on the album is it's probably one of the best things to come out in years. I hear absolutely no relation to Burzum so I'm not quite sure how your assumption manifested itself. Burzum is much more complex and varied in its structure, unlike the ambient minimalism of VC. In fact, it's so minimal I can't really imagine more than a dozen or so people liking it, and I think the description of ambience played with metal instruments is about as fitting a description as I've seen.

Aside from their ideology, this band earned my further respect when the female half of this band called groups like Nargaroth and Moonblood lowlifes in a recent interview on metalcrypt.com   ;D


Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 09, 2004, 12:27:18 PM
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I almost appreciate Dextronaut more now, as it isn't afflicted by the same HIV+ pretensions as this album is.


RollingStone.com:  News - Bug Chasers


Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 09, 2004, 01:45:12 PM
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What do dark chocolate, Stephen Hawking's seed, and French New Wave have in common?



What is the significance of such a question? I too have eaten chocolate, seen French new wave films, and read a Steven Hawking book (though I didn't care much for it). Why is there a need to link all this together, or color it so it fits a black metal mold? She enjoys eating chocolate, she enjoys watching new wave films, and she relates to what Steven Hawking says. What are you missing here?

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 09, 2004, 05:03:57 PM
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I hear absolutely no relation to Burzum so I'm not quite sure how your assumption manifested itself. Burzum is much more complex and varied in its structure, unlike the ambient minimalism of VC. In fact, it's so minimal I can't really imagine more than a dozen or so people liking it, and I think the description of ambience played with metal instruments is about as fitting a description as I've seen.

I brought up the comparative example: the song Hvis Lyset Tar Oss. Go have a listen, then listen to the first two songs alone. Vikernes already did this song structure a decade ago, and there are countless bands since then (and well before then, I might add) who have perfected ambience without the reliance of some novelty device to shanghai fools into believing they're doing anything other than playing Varg's lick's on a new-fangled doohickey.

In any event, while this may be the best thing to come out in years, with the lone exception of Rob Halford that springs to mind, that's hardly a feather in one's cap to have such a distinction conferred upon oneself, considering the absolute void of innovation this group possesses.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 09, 2004, 05:04:55 PM
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RollingStone.com:  News - Bug Chasers



I'm glad someone caught that reference.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 09, 2004, 10:31:37 PM
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I brought up the comparative example: the song Hvis Lyset Tar Oss. Go have a listen, then listen to the first two songs alone. Vikernes already did this song structure a decade ago, and there are countless bands since then (and well before then, I might add) who have perfected ambience without the reliance of some novelty device to shanghai fools into believing they're doing anything other than playing Varg's lick's on a new-fangled doohickey.


I can't agree here. Hvis Lyset Tar Oss (the album) is my #1 album of all time. I know the thing inside out, the lyrics, you name it, so I am very familiar with this album and the song you mentioned. I must say, it has nothing to do with anything on the "Genevieve" album. You said Vikernes already did this song structure years ago? Rock bands from the 50's used this exact same structure, starting with the groundwork, moving on to the bridge then on to a 'chorus' (or climax or whatever works best when describing such parts). Saying Varg invented this is very inaccurate as this form of structure has existed since the early days of Jazz, and probably could be traced back to early folk music as well. So seeing as the structure is, more than anything, a folk/rock/blues structure rather than a Burzum structure, and seeing as the guitar chords and most importantly patterns are a complete 180 (Varg uses many arpeggios whereas the bulk of "Genevieve is all slow monolithic chords) and vocal patterns and styles are a definitely contrast, I've yet to see anyone logically explain just how these two bands have any relation at all. I don't mean to sound short with you, but it truly vexxes my mind to see all these comparisons yet nobody can really seem to pull out a justification that makes sense.

Another thing that doesn't hold much merit is the constant attacks on the bands instruments. There is lots of talk about novelty on here, but why make it guesswork an issue? Why focus so much on the perceptions of the scene rather than the art itself? If inventing a new instrument is a gimmick, then bring on the gimmicks. I think this forward thinking approach to instrument creation (or adaption) is a very healthy thing especially in a stale scene such as black metal, not something to run around proclaiming gimmick about. Black metal shouldn't be about sitting around playing the same old thing from 13 years ago and forbidding anyone to progress. I find "Genevieve" to be a huge leap in one single album, and it seems fully genuine. I think any band who only does 2 interviews in almost 8 years is certainly not out for scene fame or whatever.

Just my opinion.

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In any event, while this may be the best thing to come out in years, with the lone exception of Rob Halford that springs to mind, that's hardly a feather in one's cap to have such a distinction conferred upon oneself, considering the absolute void of innovation this group possesses.



Void of innovation is a phrase I do not correlate with this group, at least for this album. I can think of no other black metal band in history to centralize their theme around ecoterrorism, condemn Satanism (a wild notion that will earn them more hatred than anything I could imagine), and on the music front I really can't think of anything that sounds remotely close to this, especially since they are constantly compared to Burzum, a band which has significant and noticeable differences on every level - from music to ideology and everything between.

Again, I hope this doesn't sound as though I'm being short with you, it simply boggles the mind to see bands who are making art with such a pure vision be ridiculed for inventing their own instruments or watching new wave films. These trivial issues mean nothing, only the sound which emits from the speakers.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 10, 2004, 03:13:21 AM
And unfortunately for them, what I perceive emitting from the speakers is rehashed claptrap, done infinitely better by more experienced folk years before them.

I don't care what label they paste on to their music to euchre jackasses into thinking they're "doing something new"; the whole world chases novelty while great art slips by unnoticed. Velvet Cacoon employs the aesthetic tools and garments created fifteen to twenty years ago by a handful of bands to fit into a genre that already exists - they're not creating anything, in the sense of actual invention; the same lengthy, strobing melodic patterns and blastbeats that characterizes much of the initial explosion of black metal's aesthetic appearance and content entirely comprises the whole of Genevieve.

If, with their "invention" of this new instrument, they couldn't figure out anything more inventive to do with it then create the same old stock-standard black metal that's been recycled and abused since 1996, than they are not "creating" anything new; they've deluded themselves - and, apparently, you - into believing that some "minimalist ambience" is at work here, whereas Vikernes achieved the same thing on the aforementioned album (by the way, are you sure you've heard the same album/song I have? - there are no verse/bridge/chorus/repeatlikemonkey song structures to be found on that album, or any album for that matter: it's entirely narrative, and follows the melodic lead, through the sustained repitition of the riffs for the evocation of an "ambience" - bear in mind as well that I'm only referencing the song not the album, which has greater variation than said song).

They are the greatest con artists of our times: they've fueled enough internet rumour and speculation to send the advance hype into a fever pitch, no matter what they ended up doing musically. They are exemplary mass marketers; this charade of theirs about recording an album but not releasing it as it wasn't up to par - Darkthrone? Years ago?

Come up with something else boys - this is ham-fisted bullshit at best (not referring to you noirla).

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 10, 2004, 03:20:00 AM
Also, if you're going to trot out the old "metal has it's roots in the blues" argument, as some form of an aside to this, please confer this thread and see the conclusions reached. It's bad enough it wasted as much bandwidth as it did there to get the point across, let's try and nip such things in the bud, eh?

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 10, 2004, 12:29:26 PM
If all that is replied with is "gimmick and novelty"...

How is the band at fault for internet rumours and speculation? That seems senseless to find any reason to hate them and go with it. The fact that you add these supposed complaints to your arguments makes me think your original argument (about their music) isn't strong enough so it needs to be re-enforced with all these small trivial matters which are caused by fans and internet groupies. Should Varg really be blamed for the loads of children on nazi.org as well? I also don't buy the argument this band has no originality as nobody has yet to name a suitable comparison that draws a direct link. And whose guitar sounds like that? It may not sound like some distorted keyboard or whatever you were expecting, but it certainly sounds original.

Even you admitted this VC is probably the best thing to come out in years. Many people probably agree with you on that. Perhaps this is a case of people wanting to tear down what's on top?  ;D

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 10, 2004, 01:16:15 PM
Well, you could turn that around.  Who praises this band without mentioning that they almost never do interviews, they have "alleged" ties to ELF, etc...

I'm listening to the album right now.  Saying that this is completely original and unique is sort of pushing it.  Maybe it's original and unique among other constantly blasting minimalist ambient black metal albums.  

If I hadn't read about it I never would've guessed that there was any complicated contraption behind the guitar sounds.  There are other bands that have gotten unique sounds without really odd set-ups, at least as far as I know.  It generally sounds like a trebly black metal guitar with some ambient effects (possibly keys) in the background.  

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 10, 2004, 03:15:27 PM
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Well, you could turn that around.  Who praises this band without mentioning that they almost never do interviews, they have "alleged" ties to ELF, etc...

I'm listening to the album right now.  Saying that this is completely original and unique is sort of pushing it.  Maybe it's original and unique among other constantly blasting minimalist ambient black metal albums.  

If I hadn't read about it I never would've guessed that there was any complicated contraption behind the guitar sounds.  There are other bands that have gotten unique sounds without really odd set-ups, at least as far as I know.  It generally sounds like a trebly black metal guitar with some ambient effects (possibly keys) in the background.  


Yes, you could turn it all around, or you could do the logical thing and listen to the music for what it is, not worrying about what kind of cereal they were eating while recording.

I don't think this album is 'trebly' black metal in the least. If anything, it has a strong sense of bass which is lacking on most albums.


Is anyone here going to mention a comparison with justification? Or will inaccurate descriptions continue to flood this thread? ;) It's hard to take this unoriginal argument seriously when zero comparisons are being made, other than a very inaccurate Burzum comparison.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 10, 2004, 05:04:18 PM
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Yes, you could turn it all around, or you could do the logical thing and listen to the music for what it is, not worrying about what kind of cereal they were eating while recording.


Absolutely, I completely agree.  Btw, weren't you just praising this band up for their unique ideology and condemnation of Satanism 5 minutes ago?  

I don't want to argue about what sounds trebly and what doesn't, but at the very least VC have a recognizably "black metal" guitar tone.  It's not that far out of left field.

I wouldn't peg VC for completely ripping off any particular band but I'm quite sure I've heard slow repetitive minimalist riffs + simple fast drumming on a black metal album before.   It's definitely "remotely close" to Darkthrone or Burzum or Sort Vokter or Demoncy ('Joined in Darkness'), not to say there aren't important differences just like those bands are different from each other.

Re: Velvet Cacoon Interview
November 10, 2004, 06:52:16 PM
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Absolutely, I completely agree.  Btw, weren't you just praising this band up for their unique ideology and condemnation of Satanism 5 minutes ago?


I brought it up as a point of interest, but it certainly isn't going to make me like or dislike the band anymore. I judge a bands worth by their music first and foremost. That's just me though. I don't care if something I like has some big following on the internet. That sort of stuff has no direct effect on the music and how it affects me.

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I don't want to argue about what sounds trebly and what doesn't, but at the very least VC have a recognizably "black metal" guitar tone.  It's not that far out of left field.

I wouldn't peg VC for completely ripping off any particular band but I'm quite sure I've heard slow repetitive minimalist riffs + simple fast drumming on a black metal album before.   It's definitely "remotely close" to Darkthrone or Burzum or Sort Vokter or Demoncy ('Joined in Darkness'), not to say there aren't important differences just like those bands are different from each other.


Nobody advertises the sound as out of left field though. It seems, more or less, people get their hopes up and expect something they've created in their mind rather than settle for whats at hand. The guitar certainly has a unique sound, but I also think it's wise on the bands part to maintain that black metal sound as well. As for the Sort Vokter and Demoncy comparisons, I can't even comment.  :o  :-X