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Pure Metal and ANUS

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 13, 2010, 07:56:57 PM
Quote from: Night of the Demon
Wagnerianism is a component of the metal spirit, but not its entirety
Very true.  I admit I was oversimplifying with the example.  Maybe you could provide a succinct explanation what you believe to be the spirit of metal.

The spirit of metal is a romantic, powerful one that celebrates the individual and community simultaneously.  It is similar to highly patriotic American libertarianism, except replacing America with Heavy Metal.  Concurrently, it is aesthetically based in tradition and masculine extravagance.

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But there are other ways to be romantic without being Wagnerian, an example being horror
That's a very good point.  In fact, I think what you describe is exactly what Death Metal embodies.  Would you agree?[/quote]

Yes, death metal definitely does this.  I would like to stress that I have never tried to argue that death metal is inferior to heavy metal, but rather just not superior.
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I think there is actually far more common ground here than we think.  To get back to a point you made earlier:
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Now, the center of the issue between others and myself in this thread seems to be agreeing upon A. What pieces, and more broadly what styles of pieces, are the masterpieces, and B.  Whether punk took metal to a superior level than it had been before, and whether punk has more of a right in metal than other genres.
Could you provide a short best of list in terms of what you consider to be metal masterpieces?  Also perhaps a list of what you consider to be the best extreme metal?

Here's five albums that are my personal favorites, and my idea of some of the best metal out there:

Angel Witch- Angel Witch
Manowar- Hail to England
Demon-Taking the World By Storm
W.A.S.P.- W.A.S.P.
Venom- Welcome to Hell

...and yes, there are many more, but that's a rough top 5

As for some of the best extreme metal I've heard:

Death- Scream Bloody Gore
Bathory- Bathory
Nile- Annihilation of the Wicked
Decapitated- Winds of Creation
Bloodbath- Resurrection Through Carnage

I'm interested too if you have a list for those categories.  Could be cool to compare.

Oh yeah, there were healthy scenes, but not as big.

Scene of good punk wasn't so big. Rest consisted of losers I mentioned and complexity of music had nothing to do with it. Word "relatively" was important.

Well, good punk maybe.  But everyone knows it is a very easy "garage genre," meaning that a garage band can form and play punk music that is listenable.  Bad punk is just boring and worthless; bad prog is like a raping of the ears.

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But punk is still mostly foreign, even with some similarities.  If you take the most cliched example of heavy metal, and the most cliched example of punk rock, they are worlds apart.  They did eventually merge, but so did many other genres.

That's because you choose to perceive it that way. You can always respond with "but still...". I don't care about cliches because they don't give proper view about occurrences. But if you took The Exploited and Judas Priest you shouldn't have problems in spotting similarities. And it's worth to mention here what things like Manowar is. A cliche. Image of idea. It's suppose to look like Wagner but it's done by tokens, theatrics and wrongly interpreted pathos (which hints that they didn't understand nothing but the surface of Wagner) while other bands could actually communicate idea through music in a more noble efforts, thus truly closing themselves to those which communicated those ideas before them.

Metal is a  very aesthetically driven genre, and these tokens are important to many artists and fans.  There is a false dichotomy between focus on image and focus on music; you can have both, and it is inherently more metal to have both.  It is like the operas; the whole thing was the art, including the visuals, not just the music.  I do not think bands should strive to recreate the Wagnerian spirit, but adapt it to something new.  I think the spirit adapts perfectly to to the bands who were evolving out of hard rock.  I think romanticism mixes very nicely with motorcycles and rocking out, because it glorifies what was previously just a human celebration to spiritual levels.

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I don't dislike punk in metal, in fact I love it.  I just don't think it's superior to pure metal.  I even like pure punk, like the Ramones.  Now, I am not a punk though, and I do not share (most) of their ideals even if I like the music.  I'm more critical of American hardcore punk than the original English punk bands, though.  I do not like how so many thrash bands tried to strip away the leather costumes, and the elements that made heavy metal a vibrant culture.  A lot of speed/thrash bands highly influenced by hardcore punk would say "Fuck the leather. Fuck the costumes. Fuck the spikes.  We're going out there with street-cred."

The case is vibrant elements was still there after cutting leather and spikes off. Any conclusion?
Also you are lying just to sound more credible. How can someone love something which make thing he hold dear worse?

It didn't make anything worse.  It added new corners to metal, but no type of metal ever dies.  There are stew new heavy metal, power metal, thrash metal, death metal, and black metal bands coming out every day.  Why would I seriously get angry at punk?  Everything's still alive and well, it's just that now there are new things to listen to too... but they aren't better....or more metal.

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NWOBHM is not very different from Black Sabbath.  Look at bands like Angel Witch, Witchfinder General, and Pagan Altar.  I also don't have an issue with prog rock or glam rock; I think those genres had things to say and they work in the context of metal.  Kevin Heybourne of Angel Witch said he loved when metal started mixing with other genres like glam and punk, and this occurred to him when he met the now-obscure glam metal band Girl from the 70's.

Then he didn't care about pure metal. They wasn't so serious as you about it, don't you think? Besides I was thinking more about Maiden or Diamond Head. And Fuck that glam stuff. More sane, traditional metalheads rejected that shit back then at once as poseurish faggotry. Why Maidens made jokes about Def Leppard?

Well, I wouldn't imagine he would care about pure metal.  The issue was not even relevant at the time when there was very little division in the community. Also, the point is that metal can be blended effectively with many different genres, and punk is just another one of those.  As for whether you like one genre or not, well, that is just opinion.


Whether or not something is rock is arbitrary semantics.  Whether or not a person chooses to lump metal under larger, semantic categories is irrelevant.  Can't you see that calling it rock or not is irrelavant to how metal is what it is?
No, this is not arbitrary semantics. This involves describing that which makes metal, metal. Saying that it is a style of rock prevents it from being its own entity by continuing to view it as nothing more than a modification of something else. In fact, you're so determined to avoid seeing metal as a distinct concept that you see both its original and more recent forms as nothing more than modifications of things that preceded them. And then you complain about us "watering it down."

It's not watered down.  Do you think you are watering down metal by lumping it in with "popular music" (as opposed to art or traditional)?

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My point is, why does punk lay claim to the title of the genre that can take metal places, when in reality any genre can?
No, in REALITY -a.k.a. that thing determined by physically manifested results, not contemplated possibilities- not every genre can have that same degree of influence. Prog has. Classical nearly has. Glam has not. Alternative has not. Rap has not. Vedic chants have not.

I believe they all have the potential, but some ideas are left underdeveloped due to human shortcoming.

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The popularity is still significant, with many new albums in those genres breaking into the mainstream and appearing on their charts.  That actually makes them more popular than extreme metal.  Also, even if they were unpopular, who cares?  Since when has art been a popularity contest?  Does losing most popularity and influence make the art less valid?  If 300 years from now metal is almost forgotten, would that mean it's not significant?
Heh, now the dismissal of reality is just going into whole new levels of ridiculous. Glam is NOT popular in any way but the ironic one - in fact you have already admitted to this. You contradict yourself a lot. Like when, after saying that the popularity is significant, you IMMEDIATELY follow it by saying "who cares about popularity?" Your arguments have fallen apart so drastically that you are now literally arguing against yourself and don't even realize it.

Just because some people view things ironically, it does not mean everyone does.  A lot of people view black metal ironically.  And my arguments only create the illusion of falling apat because I temporarily revert back and forth between arguing things with logical consistency based on your ideas and my ideas, which are different.

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As to the final question: yes. If, 300 years from now, metal is forgotten, that would only be because, at that time, metal has no place. That doesn't mean that it is not important now.

Well, I've listened to enough metal songs to know the lyrics "metal will never die."  That's something I put my faith in.  It will find a way.

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You cannot follow words.  I said "easy to play the necessities."  You can make a passable punk/metal band a lot easier than a power metal one.  Listen to Death/Mantas demos; it is not very hard to play that kind of music.

A vast majority of extreme metal is technically simple.  You could show me a few hundred complex and technical bands, but it would be a fraction of the thousands of minimalist and simple or sloppy ones, who have earned some significant level of recognition.
No, I follow intent(not individual words), and your silly attempt to change your argument after it has already been by made will convince nobody - Manowar would be ashamed at such an act of outright cowardice.

I'm not a coward; my argument is in agreement with the one on my first post, but I certainly expanded on it.

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The fact the complex bands are a fraction of the majority is completely irrelevant - democracy is an invention of the human mind. What IS relevant, is that a vast majority of the bands that DEFINED death metal and black metal adopted either instrumental or structural complexity. These were not the acts of a few oddball favorites - the complexities and nuances of bands like Emperor, At the Gates, Atheist, Dismember, Enslaved, Summoning, etc. were pivotal and central to the genres as a whole. Your statement that "punk-derived metal is more popular because it's easier to do" remains outright stupid. You should stop making it.

Oh come on, early Death and Obituary Cannibal Corpse and Deicide is not that complex, and those are mostly bigger names.  Plus, I think you'd be shocked to see that a lot of bands that blend metal with other genres like alternative, glam, hiphop, etc. are outsellling those bands.  Let's not base this off of what is more popular.

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Yes I read your response.  Nice way of backing out when you figure what you spurted out made no sense.
And here comes the passive-agressive, avoidant cattiness of a modern female. One more time: it is not what I said that (supposedly) made no sense, and your continued assertion that it is makes you look less intelligent every time you repeat it - you are still avoiding the original question, which is "how does evidence against you = evidence for you?"

That wasn't passive-aggressive.  That was mildly aggressive.  I hope your idea of masculinity is not lashing out at people over every disagreement, because that is not the kind of man I am.

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Okay, you think that punk somehow helped separate metal from rock and made it its own entity, and that no other genre has done this for metal.  Okay, I could say I feel that way about any genre as an opinion, so that basically leaves you in a state of just having an opinion.
No, your opinion that any genre COULD do this is nothing more than an opinion, for one simple reason: reality does not bear evidence for it. What reality does bear evidence for is that punk helped separate metal from rock. It does not bear evidence that glam, alternative, rap, or Vedic chants did the same. Therefore my "opinion" is a reflection of what has actually occurred - your "hypothetical" opinion is starry-eyed musing.

Punk did not help separate metal from rock.  Punk itself is a rock genre.  Extreme metal is pure rock.

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This isn't a pride issue.  What you're doing is calling the kettle black.  You are, from a neutral point of view, just as stubborn as I- you have not backed down in your beliefs, have you?  That puts us on the same level.
No, this is a pride issue. For you. As you have said before. Once again you contradict yourself.

The difference is that I admit I am stubborn, and don't find myself stronger for being so. Also - I don't lie about wanting debate when all I really want to do is to proselytize. Furthermore - I don't try to convert people to Satanism by summoning demons in the middle of Baptist church services. Although that would be amusing, I recognize that it would be ONLY for my own amusement - not for some noble educative purpose. There is a difference between corrupting the opposition from within and shouting LOOK AT ME when in the middle of the lion's den.

I admit I'm stubborn too, and there are probably multiple reasons why I came here, but persuasion is one of them, as is debate.

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Well, hipsters did not even exist in the 70's.  There have been other cultures with the same name in the past, but they are not the same subculture you are referring to.
No, they're exactly the same culture *I* am referring to. You're making the same mistake again of assuming that I don't know what I am talking about. If you were actually willing to read into what people here are telling you, instead of forming an opinion about their words before encountering them, you would have been able to realize that I am definitely not referring to the people known as hipsters who were associated with the beatnik movement. I am referring to the fact that there have ALWAYS been fakes, flakes, posers, losers, leeches, opportunists, and social parasites. Glam was a celebration of social parasitism, which is why only hipsters -whatever particular name they may have gone by at the time- have ever been involved with it.

Whatever.  This is getting back into raw opinions of "I like this" and "I don't like this" which we've established is just opinion and cannot be proven.  After all, it is ANUS who is critical of "just an opinion" statements.

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It's the same music with a different name; what matters is the sound.  Who cares if I want to call it rock or not?
Contradicting yourself once again. We care, because when we think of metal, we think of something better than rock. "Who cares if I want to do x?" - the eternal cry of the hipster. You're going to have to go to great lengths to illustrate in what way a song like "Det Som En Gang Var" is rock'n'roll.

I don't know what is hipster about any of this.  What do you define as hipster?  I associate it with people who appreciate art ironically.

Extreme metal is based off of electric guitar, bass, and drums with lyrics about rebellion, sex, death and the devil; that is what it is at its core.

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Slayer is still a lot of verse-chorus, and there is plenty of heavy metal without verse-chorus every song.  I don't think punk has anything much to do with abandoning verse-chorus.

Also, that new lens could be any other genre: look! The metal elements shine through the prog influence! Punk is just another rock genre, anyway.
Please go back to the post in question and show me where I said that Slayer had abandoned verse-chorus, or that punk was able to break free from rock on its own. You may not know how to read very well, but I'm willing to teach you.

Oh, so they can only break free when they work together?
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This is hilarious.  It boggles my mind how anyone can still think after this whole debate that any factual evidence has been placed against me that I have not refuted.  It's actually the reverse that has happened.  I proved myself correct using facts, while everyone else argued back with opinions that had no grounds in history or word definitions, or even logic.

And now people are trying to "troll" me off because they feel like crap when they can't argue back with solid evidence, but instead only ideas that no one needs to accept.
And finishing it all off with some self-righteous victimy whining. The fact is that people are calling "troll" because you consistently present a view of reality so severely distorted that it is becoming increasingly difficult to believe that you are serious; you argue against yourself, you fail to understand what people tell you, and then come to the conclusion you have been proven correct - after all, if you are confused by your opponents' statements, it surely must be because they are inherently confused, not because there is an internal issue with your ability to understand.

Holy shit?! Victimy?  Tone doesn't get across too well over the internet, eh?  I do not feel defeated or violated.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 03:34:08 AM
Is that you, Conservationist?

I have lost faith after your last post. Extreme metal is pure rock? Especially movie soundtracks or ambient layers played on guitar. Then everything is rock. Insanity.

What is important is that merge with punk wasn't typical, or even similar to breeding between other genres.
Listen to music and think about it for a while. Generally I despise crossover or more punky thrash but even such examples are more organic than hybrids of others genres. You may find that essence of metal is purer than before. Often It's bare bones in fact.

You seek simplified approach (because of rock which is Hollywood of music; you know I like Apocalypse Now and even Conan the Barbarian, but they are merely a remainder of feelings, stances and occurrences carefully prepared for prole's minds).

About image - it should have some proportions because too often it became a circus (Heavy Metal) or performance (Black Metal). More often than not it's the main factor which uses laws of physics to drown art. You already got pop music to distract you from what is being communicated (in that case nothing important or watered down, simplified life issues and ideas - just like in Manowar). You can have Beethoven's Eroica and that "national" composers producing rubbish, whose still could be connected on some level with the original, purer idea. But execution and understanding would be crucial here if you are about best expressions.

Looking at weigh of your arguments I can just say come on kid they were wrong. People and critics knew nothing. It was just mislabel, metal came later. You actually admitted that it was called retrospectively to differentiate Blue Cheer, heavier The Beatles and Led Zepp from metal. I can do same thing now. It was some good ideas still trapped within rock.

You said that everything is alive. It wouldn't if not that inversion movement. There is always some reconstructionist groups, people will always play retro genres etc. but they have nothing important to say. You just want your products line to continue, while we are not happy that metal is still being produced without proper content or whatever, as everything's going wrong now.

I think that you intentionally placed shit on your "extreme" (there should be Death and Black respectively because I fail to see why it should be main defining factor and how it's more extreme for modern listener than Heavy was for 70s generation) list and it's surprisingly random.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 04:38:40 AM
Trololololol.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 04:43:19 AM
I think both sides of this thread have been explained as far as they can. I have nothing to add. The only thing we can hope now is that when people read over this thread in the future they see sense.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 06:07:09 AM
They'll see sense and nonsense - the sense of the ANUS regulars, and the nonsense of the thread starter.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 07:34:58 AM
At a glance, all I noticed is that the OP failed to grasp the architectural difference between metal and rock.

All he's noted are the faster drums and guitar technique - style that can be imitated by anyone with ears and still end up being rock music...
(Rock is an aesthetically-driven genre. Metal happens to use rock aesthetics and instrumentation but is many degrees removed from rock.)

...as opposed to music form - architecture that can only be imitated by brains or good intuition
(Metal is an architecturally-driven genre. Rock is an aesthetically-driven genre. They can't be reconciled because of this key difference.)

While this page doesn't really dissect the music, it defines a lot of what was misunderstood or overlooked.
http://www.anus.com/metal/about/styles.html#cyclic

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 11:18:49 AM

Looking at weigh of your arguments I can just say come on kid they were wrong. People and critics knew nothing. It was just mislabel, metal came later. You actually admitted that it was called retrospectively to differentiate Blue Cheer, heavier The Beatles and Led Zepp from metal. I can do same thing now. It was some good ideas still trapped within rock.

Do you think it is plausible that in the future the music you listen to will have advanced to the point where Suffocation and Immortal are no longer metal?  If so, then you define metal in a very fickle and useless way.  What the community has accepted as metal (Black Sabbath, Tygers of Pan Tang, Warlock, etc.) will always be metal.

At a glance, all I noticed is that the OP failed to grasp the architectural difference between metal and rock.

I think you associate rock too much with verse-chorus.  A lot of progressive rock and experimental rock does not follow this format, while a lot of death metal is verse-chorus.  What separates metal from other types of rock is the texture and riffing style; it is how it sounds.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 12:27:30 PM

I think you associate rock too much with verse-chorus.  A lot of progressive rock and experimental rock does not follow this format, while a lot of death metal is verse-chorus.  What separates metal from other types of rock is the texture and riffing style; it is how it sounds.

"Riffing style" means too much, riffing style can mean different genres. Not only guitar strumming, but also the modal and the atonal approach of death or black metal and comparing it to the melody over chord progression of rock music.

"Texture" means very little: Scarlatti on a Kazzo remains Scarlatti.

ANUS always acknowledged that people like Fripp made "proto-metal", this is not metal, but rock music that gave opportunity for a new genre to emerge. It became a whole package that it is different from rock music, yes, usually in structure, but also in melodic and harmonic construction.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 12:40:08 PM
Do you think it is plausible that in the future the music you listen to will have advanced to the point where Suffocation and Immortal are no longer metal?  If so, then you define metal in a very fickle and useless way.  What the community has accepted as metal (Black Sabbath, Tygers of Pan Tang, Warlock, etc.) will always be metal.
Let's not forget what Nietzsche taught us about concepts. They're utterly arbitrary and rooted in our simplistic cognitive faculties; a rough approximation of reality meant to streamline our interaction with others.

Quote from: FWN
Just as it is
certain that one leaf is never totally the same as another, so it is certain that the concept
"leaf" is formed by arbitrarily discarding these individual differences and by forgetting
the distinguishing aspects. This awakens the idea that, in addition to the leaves, there
exists in nature the "leaf": the original model according to which all the leaves were
perhaps woven, sketched, measured, colored, curled, and painted--but by incompetent
hands, so that no specimen has turned out to be a correct, trustworthy, and faithful
likeness of the original model.
Just like leaves, there's no pure form of "Metal" upon which all metal music has been derived. It's just a cool name for a plethora of bands that have some common sonic thread.

Metal isn't immortal. But the spirit embodied by its greatest practitioners is.

Even when metal is forgotten (Satan forbid!), the musicians whose art has transcended the boundaries of their own age and tapped into the vein of eternity will be remembered.


Quote from: Night of the Demon
I think you associate rock too much with verse-chorus.  A lot of progressive rock and experimental rock does not follow this format, while a lot of death metal is verse-chorus.  What separates metal from other types of rock is the texture and riffing style; it is how it sounds.
This is true. But much of the "advanced" progressive/experimental rock is just noodling without rhyme or reason; a tall and aesthetically pleasing tower that is structurally unsound and collapses after too long...

Form/architecture isn't everything -- it must be unified with spirit. There's a certain je ne se quois about many verse/chorus extreme metal bands that make them distinctive, even if just musically switching up the verse after each chorus. I'll need to do some more thinking to adequately explain, but I hope you can see the idea.

Regarding the original argument of the thread, I think it suffices to say that extreme metal is more than the mere sum of its parts. To say that it is less pure because of punk influence is silly; all musical genres, all artistic movements are just recombinations/revisions of things past. There is no such thing as new ideas.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 12:43:53 PM
Is that you, Conservationist?
I too suspect this is someone playing devil's advocate to have some fun and test the forum's meddle.

Trolololol

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 01:07:22 PM
Do you think it is plausible that in the future the music you listen to will have advanced to the point where Suffocation and Immortal are no longer metal?  If so, then you define metal in a very fickle and useless way.  What the community has accepted as metal (Black Sabbath, Tygers of Pan Tang, Warlock, etc.) will always be metal.
Let's not forget what Nietzsche taught us about concepts. They're utterly arbitrary and rooted in our simplistic cognitive faculties; a rough approximation of reality meant to streamline our interaction with others.

Now it almost sounds as though you are dismissing the argument as frivolous, claiming that "what is metal?" is just a semantic and unimportant question, whereas "what music contains the spirit that I and like-minded people call 'metal'?" is the question worth asking.

And this would boil down to for me what is sentimental: I have placed my heart in a definition of metal supported by the dictionaries and the press, combined with my interpretations of them (since many sources disagree over what is and isn't metal.)  You place your mind in a definition of metal supported by a more recent interpretation of what is happening as an artistic movement, relevant to time and evolution, but a definition that is not supported by a majority.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 02:04:26 PM
Quote from: Night of the Demon
Here's five albums that are my personal favorites, and my idea of some of the best metal out there:

Angel Witch- Angel Witch
Manowar- Hail to England
Demon-Taking the World By Storm
W.A.S.P.- W.A.S.P.
Venom- Welcome to Hell

...and yes, there are many more, but that's a rough top 5

As for some of the best extreme metal I've heard:

Death- Scream Bloody Gore
Bathory- Bathory
Nile- Annihilation of the Wicked
Decapitated- Winds of Creation
Bloodbath- Resurrection Through Carnage

I'm interested too if you have a list for those categories.  Could be cool to compare.
I'm currently checking out the bands you've listed, but I can't really give a proper assessment until I've had time to really digest the music.  The extreme metal list is somewhat insightful though, as I wouldn't have expected any of the last 3 on your list (I don't recall ever even hearing Bloodbath).  My own list of what the best metal albums are is not that different from ANUS.

(In no particular order)
Death Metal:
Morbid Angel - Blessed are the Sick
Gorguts - Obscura
Massacra - Enjoy the Violence
Autopsy - Mental Funeral
Deicide - Legion

Black Metal:
Burzum - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
Bathory - Blood Fire Death
Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger
Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom. Sathanas
Summoning - Dol Guldor

I don't know that I can offer a list for more traditional heavy metal, as I don't particularly listen to much.  I'll give it some thought, though.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 03:15:06 PM
Now it almost sounds as though you are dismissing the argument as frivolous, claiming that "what is metal?" is just a semantic and unimportant question, whereas "what music contains the spirit that I and like-minded people call 'metal'?" is the question worth asking.
Strawman, but I'll go along with it. I was merely opining that a consensus on what is metal will never be reached. Every community has their own vision of metal, and each individual within a given community has their own personal perspective. ANUS just happens to be the most intelligent of these metal communities.

ANUS postulates that a particular segment of what is commonly referred to as metal -- mostly extreme metal, but traditional metal to an extent (ANUSian metal?) -- carries on a musical tradition in both form (structure) and function (what the music is "trying to tell us") that otherwise lays dormant. Read and note the part about vir. [ http://www.anus.com/metal/about/philosophy/ ]

I subscribe to ANUS' interpretations of metal, but just like everyone else, my personal view differs slightly. Personal views are irrelevant, though, unless they provide something substantial for everyone else -- that is what your problem is.

Quote from: Night of the Demon
And this would boil down to for me what is sentimental: I have placed my heart in a definition of metal supported by the dictionaries and the press, combined with my interpretations of them (since many sources disagree over what is and isn't metal.) 
Fuck the press and dictionaries. They're outsiders. Also, fuck your heart, fuck your sentiments, fuck "your" special idea of what metal is. It's not special. Come back when you have a community of people united under your idea -- that's what makes an idea substantial or not.

Quote from: Night of the Demon
You place your mind in a definition of metal supported by a more recent interpretation of what is happening as an artistic movement, relevant to time and evolution,
Mhm
Quote from: Night of the Semen in My Asshole
but a definition that is not supported by a majority.
The majority is dumb.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 03:33:53 PM
Quote from: Night of the Demon
Here's five albums that are my personal favorites, and my idea of some of the best metal out there
Angel Witch- Angel Witch // Historically significant and pretty solid, not as fun as Iron Maiden
Manowar- Hail to England  // Not historically significant but pretty solid
Demon-Taking the World By Storm // ??
W.A.S.P.- W.A.S.P. // ??
Venom- Welcome to Hell // Historically significant but kinda sucks

Death- Scream Bloody Gore // meh
Bathory- Bathory // Not as good as later Bathory but important
Nile- Annihilation of the Wicked // B-grade death metal, its aight
Decapitated- Winds of Creation // B-grade death metal, a little better than the Nile album
Bloodbath- Resurrection Through Carnage // HIV++++

Not even close to the best metal out there. OF COURSE THatS JUST MY PRSNL OPINOIN AHAHAHA srsly evry1 liv and let liv!!!! musci is subjecitve thatz why itz so K00L cuz it makz us all SPEICAL adn uNIUQE evry1 liks dif music am i rite???
---
On a more serious note, if you're actually a legit trad metal fan, check out Lost Horizon.
Averse Sefira is to Extreme Metal as Lost Horizon is to Trad Metal.

Re: Pure Metal and ANUS
August 14, 2010, 03:43:35 PM

Quote from: Night of the Demon
And this would boil down to for me what is sentimental: I have placed my heart in a definition of metal supported by the dictionaries and the press, combined with my interpretations of them (since many sources disagree over what is and isn't metal.)
Fuck the press and dictionaries. They're outsiders. Also, fuck your heart, fuck your sentiments, fuck "your" special idea of what metal is. It's not special. Come back when you have a community of people united under your idea -- that's what makes an idea substantial or not.

The Manowar fanbase does not count as a community?  How about sites like metal archives that define metal by its texture?  How about organizations like The World Metal Alliance who hold strong to traditionalism and unity quite at odds with what has been said by ANUSians?

These are all communities.

Not even close to the best metal out there. OF COURSE THatS JUST MY PRSNL OPINOIN AHAHAHA srsly evry1 liv and let liv!!!! musci is subjecitve thatz why itz so K00L cuz it makz us all SPEICAL adn uNIUQE evry1 liks dif music am i rite???

You know, if you punctuate and write that sentence properly, it isn't entirely wrong, although I don't think being unique makes anybody cool and that's one area I would disagree with.  In fact, being unique for the sake of being cool is a sure way to end up missing the whole point of art and appreciating quality. 

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On a more serious note, if you're actually a legit trad metal fan, check out Lost Horizon.
Averse Sefira is to Extreme Metal as Lost Horizon is to Trad Metal.

I am checking them out and what I am hearing is very solid.  Umm... so thanks for the recommendation.

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The majority is dumb.

The minority is dumber.