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Mixed race or ethnic homogeneity

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 02, 2010, 08:58:52 AM
No no, didn't you guys get the message, race is a made up social construct. Remember?

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 02, 2010, 10:49:47 AM
From what I've read, oversized heads are an unfortunate-but-inevitable side effect of having evolved enormous brains, combined with the effect on the hip bones' structure of an adaptation towards walking upright. When has death in childbirth not been a problem for women?
[...]
So, some brains have a couple more cubic centimeters in volume. Some birth canals can accomodate the newborns with these traits.

This makes me wonder if there's a correlation between high IQs/bigger brains and wider hips on women for members of a given race.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 02, 2010, 11:24:13 AM
I don't believe the individual members or ethnic groups of our species all ended up at the exact same point in evolutionary development. I believe we are divided into what we may as well call subspecies, that evolution has been in parallel, is unevenly distributed with tens of thousands of years, perhaps a hundred thousand between people existing today.

Of course. I agree entirely, but I have never seen any evidence that miscegenation leads to an increase in birth fatalities for the mother. It should also be noted that, although separate races obviously followed different evolutionary paths, we *did* all develop larger brains and an upright gait. You won't hear me make a case for the lack of race as a biological element, but I think there's enough evidence for this without having to resort to unfounded speculation - given enough time, such an approach can only damage one's case.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 02, 2010, 01:18:10 PM
Of course. I agree entirely, but I have never seen any evidence that miscegenation leads to an increase in birth fatalities for the mother.

I didn't say miscegenation specifically. I had something a bit more personal in mind. Me, Germanic and Iberian Celt blend, reports of excruciating hours of labor and the need for forceps which were in use at the time, but no longer. A younger sibling of similar tribal composition and the need for c-section for that birth.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 03, 2010, 08:51:02 AM
From what I've read, oversized heads are an unfortunate-but-inevitable side effect of having evolved enormous brains, combined with the effect on the hip bones' structure of an adaptation towards walking upright. When has death in childbirth not been a problem for women?
[...]
So, some brains have a couple more cubic centimeters in volume. Some birth canals can accomodate the newborns with these traits.

This makes me wonder if there's a correlation between high IQs/bigger brains and wider hips on women for members of a given race.

For a long time, and not too long ago (i.e.: XX Century Western Civilization) it was scientificaly believed that THIS was the reason that the cro-magnons had become extinct (due to the combination of large cranial masses on cro-magnon newborns, and small hip bone structures on cro-magnon women, the women that would give birth to them. This combination resulted in a high mortality rate and thus the cro-mangnon race became extinct).

It is now known that such a view is complete fantasy. What really happened is that we, the "homo sapiens" or "homo sapiens sapiens", FUCKING KILLED THEM. It has also been discovered that the cro-magnon could SING. Remeber: WE FUCKING BRUTALLY KILLED THEM IN A PRIMATE WARFARE BEFORE SAVAGERY. Both them and we were not even savages at the time: WE WERE ABSOLUTE PRIMATES.

Troll, western Europeans have a high amount of Cro-Magnon blood which is even found in the higher classes of society.  The invaders merged with the Cro-Magnons where they were not exterminated.  Cro-Magnons had strength and intelligence, but not the same level of technology.  Where strong and capable they were able to either assimilate invaders or assimilate into the invaders.  Their strength and build made them good warriors and workers, with the intelligent rising to form hybrids with strength, cunning, intelligence, and so on of both.

The Neanderthals were out-competed by the Cro-Magnon.  The massive bone structure and musculature found in Norwegians, Finns, Germans, Irish, British, Russian, northern Italians, Basque people, and many other ethnic groups is primarily the result of Cro-Magnon assimilation.

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=100166

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 03, 2010, 07:39:58 PM
Don't you think Finntroll's song "Solsagan" talks about Trolls? Are you crazy yet? Why do you have an arab-sounding name? Are you a terrorist? An islamic fundamentalist? No Cro-Magnon blood for you, you lame excuse for Aladdin/Princess Jazmin. Now, the second part of your sentence is what got me "really paranoid lol ♥ yay like what, um like "whut" do you mean that "Cro-Magnon blood is found even in the higher classes of society"? Are we being run by monkies lol yay ♥ ? Now here is the serious part: No shit sherlock, you fucking cracked this mystery! Tell it to me, a 1/4 sorry excuse for a basque: omg like its like people tell you that you are either a Cro-Magnon or a Neanderthal lol ♥ ! Its like they tell you have monkey blood in you ♥ ! Lol yay we-r-primates lol ♥ ! Go Norway, yay ♥ ! <- See what I mean? I'm not sure this Cro-Magnon blood is any good to begin with. Further thoughts on this subject?

I'm of Cajun and Nordic ancestry.  Saif al-Malik means Sword of The King.  Saif means sword, al-Malik is title referring both to God (Divine King) and man (temporal king).  It is someone who wishes to be a good steward and serve his sovereign God and king in a warrior-like manner.

Cro-Magnons are simply indigenous Europeans.  Many of them were wiped out during invasions into some areas, but others managed to survive and even thrive in the new society brought by the agricultural and pastoral invaders from the south and east because of their resourcefulness.


Hybrids, what the hell, dude/dudette/lol ♥ ? Why don't we become just FUCKING CYBORGS if that's "lol the whole point of it lol ♥ !"

"Whatever. Go read Donna Haraway."

"Lol Whatever Brünhilde you stupid crazy wench lol ♥ !"

THE END

Cro-Magnons are modern humans with more robust traits courtesy of evolving as nomadic hunters and gatherers of Ice Age Europe.  Being a Cro-Magnon man was a rough and tough life fraught with danger and violence.  Not only did they have to hunt dangerous animals, but they had to fight other tribes and even each other over rights of succession to chiefdom, hunting rights, etc.

Anyway, my original point is that race and culture are related, but that races or nations can change or be made from two disparate parts.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 15, 2010, 03:57:40 AM
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Mixed race as opposed to Pure race

The query is a diversion from what takes any lifeform including human to its next level of advancement. The next level for us is a speciation event.

Observation: recombination is not the path to speciation.

Assumption: if some population groups are closer to this event than the others, then the query is rendered moot.

Resolution: the terrestrial no longer challenges us to advance or die off. While moving beyond the terrestrial, allow the unfit masses to fall away and the adaptive few to advance.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 15, 2010, 01:24:01 PM
there are already massive examples of mixed races all over the world. if you truly believe in hybrid vigor in humans, give me one example of the mixed race turks, mestizos, indians (dots not feathers), all of southeast asia, all of polynesia, arabs, berbers, persians etc being better then pure blood whites or far east (north-east) asians. if you look at IQ, pure blood whites and far east asians are superior to mixed races. also accomplishments of pure blood races exceed those of mixed races.persians, arabs and berbers in ancient times were pure blood caucasions but over time they became mixed. they had many accomplishments early on but the last few centuries have almost none. south east asians and polynesians are a mix of mongoloid and australoid.

someone on the first page asked about indo-european mixes. examples- the white european race is a mix of indo-european (caucasion) and old european (caucasions more similar to the ancient pure blood mesopotamians and berbers) but since both sub races both belong to the same root race, I don't think that qualifies as race mixing. if you want to see indo-europeans mixed with non caucasions just look at all of central asia (mixed with mongoloid) (especially iran) and india (mixed with australoid and to a lesser degree mongoloid)..

now prove some racial superiority of any of these mixed races being superior to the 2 top root races- caucasoid and mongoloid, the purest strains of both being white europeans and far east asians. all evidence suggests racial purity is a good thing.

you asked for links
sorry but my best examples are blatantly obvious and do not need articles. white and far east asian countries (with the exception of communist countries and those recovering from it) have the best standards of living. whites created almost all modern technology-cars, planes, computers, tv, radio, photographs, recorded sound, microwaves,refrigerators, indoor plumbing, telephone etc the japanese have made minor improvements to all these things. the rest of the world has contributed virtually nothing. there are geniuses of every race and mixed race but exceptions to the rule do not change the standard as these factors were already averaged in.
the negroids (sub-saharan africans) do excel in running speed and aggression compared to other races. proven by the 100 yard dash etc the aggression part has not yet been proven but I definitely agree from observation.
as far as australoids, the purest of them are australian aboriginees. their culture was just as unevolved as sub-saharan africa before outside influence. people make excuses such as they were isolated, had no trade etc but the amerindian had far more accomplishments with a similar situation.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 15, 2010, 08:32:36 PM
there are already massive examples of mixed races all over the world. if you truly believe in hybrid vigor in humans, give me one example of the mixed race turks, mestizos, indians (dots not feathers), all of southeast asia, all of polynesia, arabs, berbers, persians etc being better then pure blood whites or far east (north-east) asians. if you look at IQ, pure blood whites and far east asians are superior to mixed races. also accomplishments of pure blood races exceed those of mixed races.persians, arabs and berbers in ancient times were pure blood caucasions but over time they became mixed. they had many accomplishments early on but the last few centuries have almost none. south east asians and polynesians are a mix of mongoloid and australoid.

I'm going to stop you there. First there is no 'pure blood', every 'race' you mentioned was produced by constant mixing of geographical populations over hundreds of thousands of years. Second, 'accomplishment' can't be measured in the absence of a whole range of factors. Ability is NOT the result of genetic factors alone. Place a group of whites in outback Australia and see what they achieve. Blacks in Australia have 'achieved' far more with their environment than whites, which is why everything whites 'accomplished' there had to be imported. Third, even if we could translate genetics into ability, it's almost impossible to make generalisations of geographically localised groups of people - the variation is too high (90-100%). We can't have a proper discussion in this thread until people understand these basic things.

Quote

The query is a diversion from what takes any lifeform including human to its next level of advancement. The next level for us is a speciation event.

Observation: recombination is not the path to speciation.

Assumption: if some population groups are closer to this event than the others, then the query is rendered moot.

Resolution: the terrestrial no longer challenges us to advance or die off. While moving beyond the terrestrial, allow the unfit masses to fall away and the adaptive few to advance.

Interesting. Why is speciation desirable for you, and what do you expect to see from it. Physical improvement? Telepathy?

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 15, 2010, 09:00:28 PM
I'm under the impression that mixed race provides benefits as each race has its own quality, and when combined is a furtherering of evolution.

Horse shit. It provides an averaging of traits, which is random. "Furthering of evolution" is difficult to parse; evolution is adaptation. With mixed-race: to what?

Basically what I was about to say.

Also, NEVER say "pure race".  It isn't technically accurate.  Although it works for the title of this thread, I  wouldn't fling the term around. 
Mixing "races" doesn't merely produce all/mostly positive results.  They just produce random effects via the genes of parental units. You'll receive a mixed child, not a super-hybrid.  Each "race" has positive values due to adaption of the environment from which they have recently come from.  Northern/western Europeans such as myself produce much more vitamin D than an Asian or African.  Africans can of course lie out in the sun, whereas I'd toast.  There are probably behavioral/psychological differences as well.  Etc. etc. etc.  I could go on, but you get the point.

I advise you to get off of the prejudice bandwagon.  It's annoying, and mixing the hell out of races will not fix the issue.  You can't expect that to work; I've heard this argument before and it's not biologically viable.  Rationals aren't prejudice, they look at the facts and go down the path in which those facts lead without bigoted assumptions.  You want to get rid of prejudice?  Promote knowledge, education, and silence the idiots.  Mixing everyone up isn't going to fix anything.......

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 15, 2010, 09:21:42 PM
"First there is no 'pure blood', " that depends on your standard of pure. if you consider only 100% to be pure then yes. 99.5% pure like most of europe is good enough for me, 97% is good enough for me. others might have different standards as well.

"Ability is NOT the result of genetic factors alone." true, environment comes into play as well but genetic factors are relevant as well and I'd say even more so then environment.

" Place a group of whites in outback Australia and see what they achieve. Blacks in Australia have 'achieved' far more with their environment than whites, which is why everything whites 'accomplished' there had to be imported. "
thats an afrocentric comment. first of all australian aboriginees are not "black", they do not descend from sub-saharan africa and have completely different dna. ancient caucasions accomplished far more then aboriginees, ever hear of the balkan-danube script? it is the first form of writing or pre-writing and was a factor in the later sumerian script. indo-europeans were known for spreading metal-working and animal domestication. if you want a complete list of ancient white accomplishments from me, you'd have to start another thread completely devoted to that as there would be some very long posts and arguments on that alone. aside from the boomerang what big accomplishment did australian aboriginees have? I myself do not know too much about them but am not impressed by what I do know about them and amerindian accomplishments were far greater then theirs given a similar situation. mayans, incas etc had many great acheivements.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 15, 2010, 09:40:51 PM
Why is speciation desirable for you, and what do you expect to see from it.

If we've come from single cell lifeforms to our present state, the pattern inherent to the process is a consistently increased awareness; The Good in Neoplatonic thought. The antithesis is declension to oblivion, evil, or sheer ignorance. Thus, each speciation event for us demarcates a definite step toward the Divine, or Being. This is also another indication that the science and religion feuding is nonsense.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 15, 2010, 10:13:33 PM
Why is speciation desirable for you, and what do you expect to see from it.

If we've come from single cell lifeforms to our present state, the pattern inherent to the process is a consistently increased awareness; The Good in Neoplatonic thought. The antithesis is declension to oblivion, evil, or sheer ignorance. Thus, each speciation event for us demarcates a definite step toward the Divine, or Being. This is also another indication that the science and religion feuding is nonsense.

What about quantum mechanics and the lack of proof in determinism?  Why care about the divine as if we can know anything other than our own subjective viewpoints?  Evolution doesn't have anything to do with that unless you have some new research.  I'm sorry but I think that's a bit off-topic.


Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 15, 2010, 11:16:57 PM
Single cell organisms do not indicate beyond rudimentary chemistry exchanges that they are aware of themselves. This is also subjective awareness but our own level is not equal to this. It is much greater, for a reason. In my view our role and the role of lifeforms overall, is somewhat akin to a sensory appendage for the universe, or multiverse as seems to be the case. We are the means for its own self awareness. We are also the closest known species to fulfillment of this role. Yet, not all members of our species are equally aware.

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I'm sorry but I think that's a bit off-topic.

It is a continuation of my previous post in this thread. Catch up.

Re: Mixed race as opposed to Pure race
October 16, 2010, 07:57:51 AM
Single cell organisms do not indicate beyond rudimentary chemistry exchanges that they are aware of themselves. This is also subjective awareness but our own level is not equal to this. It is much greater, for a reason. In my view our role and the role of lifeforms overall, is somewhat akin to a sensory appendage for the universe, or multiverse as seems to be the case. We are the means for its own self awareness. We are also the closest known species to fulfillment of this role. Yet, not all members of our species are equally aware.

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I'm sorry but I think that's a bit off-topic.

It is a continuation of my previous post in this thread. Catch up.

You're still assuming there is some divinity.....You didn't answer my question.  Off-topic means the subject of one's/group's discussion begins to deter from the OP's topic/subject.  The OP wasn't talking about what you're talking about now.  Perhaps you should catch up on what off-topic means, and perhaps you should offer better support for your rational behind this divinity crap.  How the hell are we all that self-aware anyhow?  You do realize our perception is sorely lacking, right?