Death Metal Underground

THRASH is not SPEED METAL

by Death Metal Black Metal
February 18, 2012 –
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Mix together the early CIRCLE JERKS, early BLACK FLAG, MDC, MINOR THREAT, SSD, TERVEET K�DET, and GANG GREEN, and you have something approximating these DIRTY ROTTEN IMBECILES (so-called by their parents). What can I say–this is manic, intense, tight thrash with great lyrics, and I can’t wait till these Houston boys unleash themselves upon the rest of us deprived people. 22 songs.
-Tim Yohannan (from Maximum Rocknroll #5, March/April 1983)

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  • Confused metalhead

    I am sorry but if Thrash is not Thrash then what is Thrash? And why does everybody call it like that?

  • Levy_Spearmen

    Thrashcore is often confused with crossover thrash and sometimes thrash metal.[3][4] Further confusion is added by the fact that many crossover bands, such as D.R.I., began as influential thrashcore bands.[3] The term thrashcore is of recent vintage but dates from at least 1993.[5] Throughout the ’80s, the term “thrash” was in use as a synonym for hardcore punk (as in the New York Thrash compilation of 1982). It eventually came to be used for the faster, more intense style pioneered by D.R.I., just before their crossover period.[6]

    The “-core” suffix is necessary to distinguish it from the thrash metal scene, which is also referred to as “thrash” by fans.

    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrashcore

    YEP, IT’S CLEAR, THE HARDCORE SCENE USED THE TERM “THRASH” WAY BEFORE METALHEADS DID!

  • I agree, the Metal-Archives guys have it wrong!

    quote – “Thrash = Early DRI, Mob 47″ &

    “Thrash Metal-mid period Slayer, early Metallica, Exodus (Note it could be argued that Speed Metal and Thrash metal are really the same thing)”

    Taken from the guy that wrote reviews back in 1980. This is an awesome article that explains grindcore and thrash from one of the leading magazines of the time MaximumRockNRoll.

    the link is this: http://www.havocrex.com/press/article/1/20

  • Thrash Metal sounds way cooler than "Speed Metal" anyway, and the two refer to different things.

    >quoting interviews from 1983

    lol, and I have articles that call Metallica Possessed Power Metal from ’83 and ’85 respectively. Your point? The point isn’t to be some troglodyte fixated in time but to adapt with how terminology, which was still formative when those articles were printed, is crystallized. People were using the Thrash term back then – there’s a reason Destruction wrote “Thrash Assault” in 1985. The THRASH METAL term is so canonical by now that you must be a retard to have it explained to you. Even the bands that you crusade as being “essential Speed Metal” refer to themselves as Thrash Metal, there are even documentaries about Thrash Metal called Thrash Metal.

    Yeah, ok, have fun sitting by yourself at the cool kids table in your head by calling it Speed Metal, which is wrong. You might as well be still using punchcards and complaining that the rest of the world, which couldn’t care less what some virgin thinks in his basem.ent, has moved on.

  • @Case Closed

    I hope that’s sarcastic, since all htose bands are crust or d-beat and not Thrash, not even this dumbass site’s definition of “Thrash”.

  • @ Thrash Metal sounds way cooler...

    hey it’s the > guy! Welcome back fag we missed you. Although I don’t agree with you man. Speed Metal and Thrash today refer to the same genre, only you may call it one way or the other.

    There is consensus on the existing genres and bands that best represent that genre. Lack of consensus on how it was originally called though. But you can’t say that just because now one term is more popular than the other, the original term or different term is necessarily incorrect.

  • @ Thrash Metal sounds way cooler than "Speed Metal" anyway, and the two refer to different things.

    Either way, why do you get so worked up? It’s not like we’re unplugging your favorite black dildo from your asshole. We all know that really upsets you.

  • DF@ above faggit

    lol, and I have articles that call Metallica Possessed Power Metal from ’83 and ’85 respectively. Your point?

    SHOW THEM!!

    - People were using the Thrash term back then – there’s a reason Destruction wrote “Thrash Assault” in 1985.

    - Even the bands that you crusade as being “essential Speed Metal” refer to themselves as Thrash Metal
    Yes faggot in fucking 1985. Thrash as a term, was used to discribe ultra-fast hardcore punk music in 1981. Way before Slayer and Metallica released their debuts.

    - Even the bands that you crusade as being “essential Speed Metal” refer to themselves as Thrash Metal

    Your point? Metallica and Megadeth today, hardly refer to themselves as thrash or speed metal bands, or even metal for that matter. You’re an idiot that likes jizz.

    - there are even documentaries about Thrash Metal called Thrash Metal.

    Yeah fag, except they’re all from waaay into the late 80′s or after. Then again, SHOW THEM!!!!

    - Yeah, ok, have fun sitting by yourself at the cool kids table in your head by calling it Speed Metal, which is wrong.

    This silly comment came from your head. 10 Pokemon points for actually having the courage to type it. You must be sitting on the uncool kids table also in YOUR head.

    - virgin

    Ha! Recently divorced but I’ll tell you this: I wish I was a virgin again. That would take me back to when Slayer was in their prime and your mom still didn’t had AIDS!

  • Derphead

    All I have to say is that you can’t fight linguistic drift, no matter how hard you try, and that the speed metal bands of the ’80s will be referred to as thrash metal by the masses.

  • herp(es for your ass)

    >the masses

    You are part of the masses, you fucking idiot. You might be part of a minority in that mass that believes one thing, but you’re still part of the distribution.

  • stop the faggotry

    >Yes faggot in fucking 1985. Thrash as a term, was used to discribe ultra-fast hardcore punk music in 1981. Way before Slayer and Metallica released their debuts.

    What’s your point? Black Sabbath never referred to themselves as Heavy Metal either when they started out, that term came into use ten years later. I guess by your logic we should be calling them rock? I also like how users on this site only recognize the second wave stuff as proper “Black Metal”, while Venom is “heavy metal” – which completely contradicts your logic about first dibs on genre names in the “Thrash Metal” debate, since the term originally applied to Venom, Slayer, etc. Oh, what am I saying, what logic, you just gobble up whatever prozak writes on his blog.

    Finally, given the “Thrash” word’s punk origins, the name Thrash Metal could not be appropriate, since it reflects the huge influence punk influence had on the sound. The fact that you acknowledge that the “Thrash Metal” term was in widespread use by 1985 goes to show that it was already cemented when the genre was active and still to reach its peak. Oopsie for you, I guess!

    >
    Your point? Metallica and Megadeth today, hardly refer to themselves as thrash or speed metal bands, or even metal for that matter.

    First of all yes they do, and second, they refer to the music they made in the past as “Thrash Metal” too.

    And yes, there actually is a difference between Speed Metal and Thrash Metal: Thrash Metal is oriented around jagged, jumpy riffs (e.g. Exodus – Piranha), while Speed Metal features a constant stream of the same palm muted root note from the guitars, letting the singing (because there actually is singing) takes prominence (e.g. Agent Steel – Thundersteel).

  • @ Derphead

    “and that the speed metal bands of the ’80s will be referred to as thrash metal ”

    Glad to see you’re using the correct terms on this sentence.

  • @DF

    Getting rid of your fleshlight so your parents won’t see it when you come home from school does not count as a “divorce”.

  • @ Dick Fellator

    Those articles were uploaded on some Geocities site about Possessed, they’re gone now together with Geocities. FYI.

  • DM

    - What’s your point? Black Sabbath never referred to themselves as Heavy Metal either when they started out, that term came into use ten years later. I guess by your logic we should be calling them rock?

    A: Proto Metal please if you wouldn’t mind. Or Heavy Metal is fine with me and I’m sure it’s fine with you. We both know that they in fact were a rock band that created something new which we now refer to as heavy metal.

    - Oh, what am I saying, what logic, you just gobble up whatever prozak writes on his blog.

    A: Who is Prozak? I think that we all agree on the genres from Black Sabbath to Black Metal. There are the same genres except people call them differently. My WHOLE point is, that even if the rest of the world NOW uses the contemporary terms, there is proof that originally these same genres were called the way Anus.com refers to them.

    The fact that Thrash was used to describe extreme Hardcore punk before the advent of Metallica and Slayer is to me, indicative that originally it was a term native to Punk music not Metal.

    The fact that you acknowledge that the “Thrash Metal” term was in widespread use by 1985 goes to show that it was already cemented when the genre was active and still to reach its peak. Oopsie for you, I guess!

    A: Oopsie? Ok champ, 15 Pokemon points and you get to use the magic wand for using that expression!

    Onslaught used the term Death Metal in 1985 and they never played Death Metal. So Destruction had a song called Thrash Attack does that prove anything?

    I’m not trying to force my logic down your throat pal, I’m just trying to find facts and not gobble your logic or Prozak’s. Thrasher Mag and Maximum Rocknroll mag published reviews with the term Thrash to describe THEIR type of music which was Hardcore punk hybridized with Metal or with some metallic touches waaayy before 1985 or 1983.

    This may not mean anything to you and that’s fine man, no prob. I just need to see proof that in 1983 Thrash was used also to describe the bands that YOU say to be Thrash. So, if you could please link me to those pages I’d appreciate it.

    Sincerely,

    my Cock in your mouth

  • DM @ stop the faggotry

    Until you present fact and proof, please keep your mouth shut unless you’re in your mood for sucking a dick).

    Visit this site http://www.killfromtheheart.com . Click on virtually any band and you’ll find the term thrash used almost everywhere dating back 1981-1983. I’ll give you a few examples you can check besides DRI: Teveet Kadet, Ripcord, Kaaos and many others.

    http://www.allmusic.com/explore/style/speed-metal-d782
    This brief description cites that thrash arose from speed metal yet, all the bands and albums listed under their description of Speed Metal are bands listed under Thrash on the Metal-Archives.
    See for yourself. And it’s a contemporary site.

    Finally more citations from reviewers that were there when it all was happening, way before Metal-Archives.
    Here, Thrash and Speed Metal are used indistinctively.
    Source: http://www.havocrex.com/press/article/1/11

    quote:
    “Metallica almost singlehandedly changed metal with their first album. By ripping of Hardcore
    they created speed metal and ushered in the explosion of Metal which made the 80′s truly “the Metal Years.”
    Metallica’s first two albums kick ass and I’d have to say Kill ‘em All is the second best Thrash Metal record ever.
    However, Metallica degenerated rapidly in arena rock mediocrity and are currently indistinguishable from U-2.”

    I’m here to teach you.

  • deadite

    Who the hell is calling Mob 47 and Anti Cimex thrash? They’re not by a long shot, even by the standards of ANUS.

    Good stuff though.

  • not worth my time

    It’s called having a job and other responsibilities besides owning some preteen faggot on the internet.

    I will say this though to your retarded rant: Who cares? You argue that the word “Thrash” was used in the hc/punk scene before it was used in metal. So? Who cares? That has nothing to do with how the word is used now. There are many relevant linguistic examples and etymologies to draw from regarding words that had one original meaning that shifted to another that became widespread, but here’s a recent one from my direct experience: “annealing” used to refer to a metallurgical process, now the same term is used in the genetics community to describe DNA rehybridization, and is also borrowed when referring to simulated annealing, a stochastic optimization method. Taking annealing (metallurgy) –> simulated annealing (mathematics) as an analogue, Thrash (punk) –> Thrash Metal (metal) is not that much of a stretch, but who am I kidding, you’re just a retard who doesn’t understand how language evolves.

  • @ not worth my time

    MORE PROOF:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/37613/Thrasher-Magazine-1981

    http://doublecrosswebzine.blogspot.com/2010/01/thrasher-magazine-revisited.html
    Here you willl be able to read about Thrasher magazine supporting hardcore music as the music for skaters.

    http://heavymetal.about.com/od/heavymetal101/a/101_thrash.htm
    quote “Thrash metal is also known as speed metal,”.

    http://www.allmusic.com/explore/essay/hardcore–thrash-t542
    Just F3 and search for the word thrash and that will take you to the good stuff like this:
    quote: ” Very shortly afterwards, other bands (who were often peers of the aforementioned acts) went the last nine yards into hardcore, although the line between “straight-ahead” punk and hardcore/thrash could often be (and often still is) thin.”

    http://www.killfromtheheart.com/bands.php?id=2524
    Short bio of band Heresy and how back in the early 80′s they refer to similar acts as thrash to describe their type of metallic hardcore punk.

    http://www.625thrash.com/interviews.shtml
    When old hardcore musicians use the word thrash, they subconsciously use it as part of their subculture, only to be reminded that now thrash means metal.
    But, it was not always like that for them:

    quote: “When did you start 625? What have been some of the more interesting things that have happened along the way?
    Max: I put out a few records in 1989-92…mainly just PLUTOCRACY related releases since there was not any label interest in grindcore in our area at the time, but when a record came out with “625″ on it, was I think 93…it was the NO LESS/ExTxO split Ep. I wanted to call the label WEST BAY THRASH, but all my friends were like “dude, thrash is like thrash metal man, people are gonna think you’re putting out metal”…..so I went with the initials for a graffiti crew that me and Dan (Spazz) were in. “

  • not worth my time

    I just needed to type a big paragraph to justify my cop out.
    - Not worth my time

    Yeah, that really doesn’t contradict you being here in the first place…and coming back to type a moronic evasion on the subject.

    I will say it one last time:

    SHOW FUCKING PROOF THAT THE TERM THRASH METAL WAS USED IN 1983 TO REFER TO BANDS LIKE SLAYER AND METALLICA!!!! and go eat a dick while you’re at it fucking faggot!

  • dumb faggot trying to bury my point with his retarded copypasta

    What the fuck are you talking about you retarded autist? I ask again: Who cares? “Durrrrp hardcore bands invented da term!!1″ doesn’t change the fact of how it is appropriated or used today. Who gives a shit about metal bands calling themselves thrash before 1983 (before thrash metal even existed)? None of that changes what the words Thrash Metal have meant for the past 25+ years.

  • @ dumb faggot trying to bury my point

    - “I ask again: Who cares?”

    A: At least three people: 1 I do. 2 your slutty mother 3 your naked grandma who’s great at giving blow jobs to the homeless due to her lack of teeth.

    - “Durrrrp hardcore bands invented da term!!1″

    A: Herrrrp, that’s not the point you hipster cocksucker! The point is ORIGINALLY the term Thrash was native to hardcore subculture to describe a style of hardcore punk when (you’re right) Metallica and Slayer didn’t even had a debut album.

    Why is this important? Because regardless of how the terms Thrash and Speed Metal are used or appropriated today, there is factual proof that these subgenres were ORIGINALLY called differently; the subgenres have not changed, what has changed is the nomenclature for them.

    Just because a nomenclature has fallen in disuse, doesn’t make the use of such nomenclature wrong when used to refer to the genre it was originally meant to describe.

    - “None of that changes what the words Thrash Metal have meant for the past 25+ years.”

    A: I agree with you, don’t need to discuss this further. During its formative years, Speed Metal and Thrash metal was used indistinctively.

    I guess the whole idea behind my “retarded copypasta” is that most people will not even consider that the original nomenclature for bands like Metallica, Exodus, Slayer and such bands was actually Speed Metal not Thrash Metal, and that Thrash was a term to describe bands like COC, early DRI, Cryptic Slaughter and such.

    More importantly, there is PROOF and therefore, historic accuracy that these terms were originally used the way Anus.com uses them to this day and most people are not aware of this.

    So man, use the nomenclature of your preference I don’t mind. I will use the one I think is the correct one for being the original one.

    Sincerely,

    - my balls on your nose and my cock in your mouth