Interview with MetalGate Band founder Scott Vogler

scott_vogler_-_metalgate_photo

The anti-censorship movement known as #metalgate has become a permanent and ongoing event. Like the social justice worker (SJW) antics it combats, it is both activism and activity for those looking to have fun and bash back the insanity of a dying civilization.

If it has a Command and Coordination HQ, it is arguably Scott Vogler’s MetalGate Band group on Facebook. Here, the latest idiocy of SJWs and lapdog media are listed and mocked, with quality arguments against them arising almost instantly and spreading to the far corners of the internet.

We were lucky enough to get a few minutes of Mr. Vogler’s time as he was poring over transcripts of the Judas Priest backward masking trial at the Library of Congress…

What is metalgate and why is it important?

#Metalgate was inspired by the events which sparked #GamerGate. Metalgate serves both musicians and fans alike by standing up for both of their rights to express themselves as they see fit. Like GamerGate, Metalgate seeks to be a watchdog for the press and point out flaws, corruption, and calls for censorship. Metalgate does not exist to silence anyone; on the contrary, it exist to give voice to both sides of any given debate on the topic of heavy metal whether it be a social justice warrior, Heavy Metal Enthusiast, Religious Fundamentalist, Heavy Metal Musicians, or anyone else who has something to say.

You started a group, “MetalGate Band,” on Facebook that now seems like a command and control nexus for metalgate activities. What do you do with this group?

MetalGate Band is meant to attract metal heads, gamers, musicians, artist, and anyone else who would stand up to would be censors. It’s also open for those who disagree with the premise of #metalgate. This is not meant to be a hugbox of any sort.

I would like to live in a world where no one bans anything no matter how offensive it is.

The group appears to be the only lively community representing the hash tag and we are nearing 300 members. Which as of now is a small but passionate group who for the most part are totally on board with the idea of standing up to the censors who in this case are labeled social justice warriors. There are other areas of concern as well and we address a multitude of topics every day. It’s actually been really educational for me personally.

I want to use this group to create the idea that art itself should never be censored. If you have a favorite form of entertainment or art you should preemptively stand up for it along with anyone else who would stand with you. This is not freedom of speech without scrutiny as I leave the door wide open for debate, challenges, and other perspectives.

What would you hope the average person would learn from metalgate?

I would want them to learn some history about Heavy Metal and the challenges the genre has faced over the years. I would want them to see how often Heavy Metal has faced down and defeated the censors over ridiculous things like sexual lyrics, satanic messages, violent themes, and other contrary philosophies expressed through the lens of Heavy Metal.

Most of all I would hope they would learn that their feelings do not trump the individual’s right to express themselves how ever they see fit.

Why should your average metalhead care about metalgate, or anything beyond their own purchasing? Do ideas have consequences?

To answer the first part of the question let’s go back to 1985 and look at the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) hearings where a group lead by Tipper Gore challenged the entire music industry by introducing plans to outright censor artists and musicians from creating material deemed too offensive for the general population. If it weren’t for Dee Snider, Frank Zappa, and John Denver we might very well be living in a world where all of your favorite bands might not exist.

To answer the second half of the question I would hope a simple “yes” would suffice, but I know it won’t so I’ll share an event that happened recently. Just a little over a month ago a group of radical feminists demanded that a band named “Black Pussy” be exiled from playing music. Their belief in feminism led them to threaten a venue with vandalism and violence if it allowed Black Pussy to play there which in turn caused Black Pussy to cancel the show. Black Pussy stood up for their freedom of expression by pointing out how foolishly misguided this group of rad­fems (“radical feminists”) are, got the name of their band out there, recruited more fans, and have earned the support of MetalGate even though they aren’t a metal band. Good for Black Pussy. Bad for Radical Feminism.

So I hope you see that on both sides there are consequences. Depending on how you interact with society those can be good or bad consequences. So keep that in mind whether or not you decide to join the metalgate community.

When you talked to Shayne Mathis for his hipster podcast, he seemed to be trying to make the point that racially exclusive language can be coercive, while you were pointing out that socially exclusive language like the term “racist” can be coercive. Did you find middle ground on that part of the debate?

(Shayne, if you’re reading this I just want you to realize that I don’t hate you, nor do I totally disagree with you. I don’t think you’re a complete moron or a waste of people’s time or anything like that. To answer the question though I would have to tell you that I don’t feel like we really reached a middle ground.)

It was a good conversation. I agree with Shayne that racial slurs can be extremely ignorant and are coercive attempts to silence people, but want to point out that “anti-racist” shaming is also a coercive attempt to silence people.

We should resist coercive attempts to silence people; this falls under free speech. I don’t agree with being a racist at all but I think it’s worth actually listening to racists in order to know why they feel the way they feel. The idea that we should just avoid it at all cost seems rather dangerous to me. I think the biggest reason Shayne and I disagree on the topic is that he doesn’t feel anyone other than white people can be racist where as I feel the term itself can be applied to anyone from any part of the world or racial background.

I think it’s a dangerous precedent to set that only a certain group of people can be criticized for their racism while others get a free pass to be as racist as they want to be. The middle ground is pretty far away because of this disagreement and I would hope we could bridge that gap as all of this continues.

Do you think racism exists, and does the term “racist” have any meaning, or is it yet another politically manipulative term for someone who has noticed what our leaders would prefer they do not notice? (And if so, what is being noticed?)

Yes, I think racism exists and yes the term “racist” has a meaning but it also serves as a politically manipulative term, just as any word can take on that role over time.

Honestly, who knows what they’re really hiding? Maybe just the fact that they themselves have their own issues with bigotry and are projecting it on to others. Maybe there are more insidious things and skeletons people hide with that word and use it to shoo away those who know better but in that extreme it probably wouldn’t be quite so easy to stop someone from exposing you if they had real evidence. I think the term or any term for that matter can be used to socially condition a general response out of the masses.

We’ve seen this happen before through marketing, government propaganda, movies, songs, etc. I don’t think the lesson here is whether or not people use “name calling” to hide something and dismiss other perspectives. The lesson here is how you deal with such a turn of events. When someone calls you a really mean name for obvious political reasons don’t let the power of that word frighten you from standing for your principles. What they really want is for you to sit down, shut up, and capitulate. It’s a last ditch effort to silence an already pretty silent majority from pursuing any kind of “justice” that would come swiftly as a result of a big enough information leak.

Can you tell us a bit of your own background in metal? Are you also involved in gaming?

I recall hearing Metallica quite a lot in my early years I finally became a fan of heavy music (not heavy metal) the very first time I saw Tool’s video for their song “Sober.” It wasn’t until #metalgate though that I really took a dive into heavy metal and the history lesson that comes with it. It’s such a vast genre of music and have had to cram it all in by using Spotify and listen to as much as possible to and from work every day.

In just a matter of months I went from a prog­rock/prog­metal/desert­rock kind of guy to a mad man trying to listen to as much heavy metal as humanly possible spanning all the sub­genres, generations, and styles of metal and I’m still not even close to having a good grip on reality when it comes to “Heavy Metal” but it’s been well worth it to me and will continue to learn because I just fucking enjoy it!

As far as gaming goes my earliest memory is Super Mario Bros, Kid Nikki, Zelda, Final Fantasy, and others on NES. That was on my sister’s console however so I can’t really say I was into it as much as I would be later. My very first console was a Super SNES with Super Mario World, Starfox, Chrono Trigger, Zelda 3: A Link to the Past, Final Fantasy, etc, etc.

I currently still mostly play retro games; if not I turn on my Xbox 360. I am disappointed with the direction of the video games industry. For multiple reasons, one of which sparked #Gamergate and in turn #metalgate, but other reasons as well. I don’t like to feel like I’m just playing a movie. So many games today are just that. While it looks impressive it doesn’t feel anything like a “video game” to me. I fully support #GamerGate for these reasons. I hope it sparks developers to start being more innovative and play to the strengths of their audience rather than for mass appeal.

I guess this is a question I wish someone would answer, because no one addresses it. If we have many different groups in our society, of different types (religion, race, sexual orientation, etc), and each group is offended by at least one things ­­ usually where it disagrees with another group ­­ how do we unite these groups into a society?

I would like to live in a world where no one bans anything no matter how offensive it is. I think we’re seeing the beginnings of a movement in this direction unfold over the last six months or so with things like #gamergate, #metalgate, and #comicsgate. It is not a conscious ideology so much as people just getting fed up with not being able to express themselves without some lunatic jumping down their throat with histrionic tirades. It has become a type of hobby to keep a watchful eye on the press, government, and radical groups and calling out bullshit as we see it hit the news. So for me right now the plan is to provide a platform for both sides of this argument to express their points.

I see this kind of attitude growing in light of the #gates spurring on people to stand up for the art and entertainment they love. I want to hear both sides but I am definitely in the camp that feel it’s important to take a firm stance against anyone demanding special rights, privileges, censorship, or other harmful precedents they propose. People do tend to self­segregate but it’s not something I find to be particularly harmful. If people want to be left alone they can create that situation for themselves. People of all stripes should live the way they see fit and if that means staying in a community of people who are like you then by all means go for it.

On the other hand we’re free to criticize any community or group of people we see fit and they should be willing to stand up for themselves in light of that. This whole idea of “safe spaces” and “censorship” to me is a thousand times more harmful than any harsh criticism, ignorant slurs, or bigotry that might come out. So while I support the right to remain silent I also see that it’s important to speak up at times and not run away from criticism.

What is an “SJW,” how do I recognize one, and what is the purpose of SJW’s?

A “Social Justice Warrior” (aka SJW) is someone who concerns themselves in meddling with the affairs of different groups. It is someone who has taken on an extremely left wing world view point and will often be just as over the top with their beliefs as a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim. You can recognize them by their most obvious attribute, histrionics. If you dare mention a word about something they take personally you will see a display unlike any other. I would go so far as to say they do even crazier things than religious people do because SJWs claim to be all about science, atheism, facts, and logic but act out in such ways that contradict this precept.

You can find SJW’s hanging out at the mall, coffee shops, book stores, open mic nights, and on the internet (especially Tumblr). If you still haven’t a clue on where to look for an SJW go look at the #Gamergate hashtag on Twitter. The people who are anti­gamergate are almost exclusively SJWs. Also visit Tumblr and just search the term Social Justice Warrior. There you will find them waxing dramatically about how oppressive everything is. I see SJWs as, for the most part, cattle for more intelligent people to take advantage of. I believe that the more prominent SJW figureheads are not as stupid as they appear and realize just how easily lead astray people are.

I would love to see [#metalgate] leave…a reinvigoration of the kind of unfettered desire to express oneself without apology or compromise.

To ask their purpose depends on which kind of SJW you’re talking about. Some of them exploit others, while others truly believe in their nonsense. Over all I think their purpose is to get away with as much of the same things they complain about all the time. They will criticize one person while running away from criticism themselves. This is a hallmark of social justice warriors. They want to manipulate society into guilt and shame and reap the rewards by coercing more and more power, influence, and money out of society all while having a free pass to be as bigoted as they want to be because they’re special.

David Draiman (vocalist of nu­metal band Disturbed) raised an interesting point the other day. He was disturbed that GamerGate opposes censorship, but hadn’t spoken out against anti­Semitism. Some said that gameragate should support free speech entirely, while others thought it should be against any “bad” speech like racism or anti­Semitism if it was legitimately so. What’s your take?

David brings up a good point. If you’re going to stand against “bad language” then you have to be willing to stand against all of it. I would say however that there should be unfettered free speech. This goes back to what I said about conflict avoidance and how it’s actually more detrimental than the initial slur. You can be against the slur without being for censorship of any kind.

No one ever has all the answers and groups like Gamergate have a huge and diverse crowd who seem, to me at least, to support this notion of unfettered free speech and a willingness to address these kinds of concerns in a logical way without demanding silence from detractors. To me this is a step in the right direction. The opposite view would be to either ignore the bigots and never address the issue, or try to censor them without considering what they are trying to say. I think that’s the wrong way to look at it.

What’s next for metalgate? Do you hope it will leave lasting change, stay active as an ongoing concern, or get bigger, and lead to an ultimate showdown between SJWs and metalheads?

It’s truly difficult to say what’s next for #metalgate. I plan on continuing on with this by creating new content on YouTube, creating a WordPress site specifically for metalgate, and constantly signal boosting content creators on the Facebook page. Right now it’s all about cultivating a healthy, driven, and passionate community.

I would love to see it leave a lasting change in the landscape of heavy metal. I see that change not so much as a “change” but a reinvigoration of the kind of unfettered desire to express oneself without apology or compromise. I think the reason metalgate continues despite a slow growth and only a handful of passionate metal heads is because it represents something that’s always been a part of Metal: the desire to express yourself how ever you see fit and encouraging others to do the same even if you flat out disagree with them.

If we’re talking about real wishes, someday I’d like to put on a music festival. At this giant three-day event, there would be a showdown between the different forces competing for control of metal. The two biggest contenders would be mainstream metal and underground metal, SJWs and Metalheads if you will. I would invite all of the mainstream metal bands, underground metal bands, Christian bands and others to try to outperform one another. Imagine the lengths at which some artists would go to in order to leave the impression that what they are playing is METAL and what others are playing is merely rock and roll. That is the sort of attitude and competition that made early British bands, thrash bands, and black metal bands famous. The will to push the envelope of society in order to be the heaviest, most brutal, most technically gifted, most worshiped metal acts in the world.

I believe this has the potential to reinvigorate heavy metal if the right voices are lent to it and the right minds come together to make this leave a lasting impression on the history of heavy metal. Until then, I will just continue managing the Facebook group and welcome all comers to throw their name in the hat. Finally, I’m just an average guy on the internet with a full time job and starting out a family. If you are in the metal industry and you feel the way I and others do about this please give your voice, resources, and talent to it and shake things up. You could be the one to take this from an internet argument to the headlines as you make waves in the music industry by redefining heavy metal.

Thank you, Scott, for taking the time to do this somewhat prolonged and specific interview.

Scott and Jim “Kamikaze” Thompson have started a talk radio style podcast-ish video series in which they analyze the issues of the day according to #metalgate and #gamergate. Session One begins below.

69 thoughts on “Interview with MetalGate Band founder Scott Vogler”

  1. Black Commentator says:

    This boy looks like a Shrute. Prominent forehead, moon-faced, girl repellant hair part.

    1. Scott Vogler says:

      Yeah well, you look like a booger head. Dumb dumb… and I’m gonna tell my mommy on you.

      1. hypocrite says:

        And send DMU another pic of yourself that looks less goofy.

  2. Richard Head says:

    I have checked into the #metalgate facebutt group and they are basically #gamergate but more populated by tryhards. They are fans of screamo, metalcore, pop-punk, butt rock, and modern video games. Worst of all, they are constantly sharing hyperbolic sensationalist news stories that are not only totally unrelated to metal but not even related to social justice issues or censorship.

    #metalgate may or may not have been a good idea but I’ve found that 1. it’s unneeded (heavy metal doesn’t need to organize to defend itself from social justice censorship) and 2. the real infiltration of metal is nowhere near as obvious as these alt-rock fanboys can comprehend; the real attack on metal comes from the poseurs aping underground legends and being presented by metal promoters as the greatest thing since pussy (Revenge, Diocletian, etc.). That’s a challenge that the fedora-tippers in #metalgate are completely unprepared to face.

    1. Scott Vogler says:

      Richard,

      It is my understanding that metal heads have a long standing apathy towards taking a stand when it comes to organizing against the mainstream?

      “Metal Head Apathy” is the phrase I’ve heard tossed around.

      It’s up to you if you don’t want to be a part of this. But as I can see you have some criticisms and brought up an issue that you think is affecting metal.

      You bring up that it’s more subtle than I am capable of understanding and provide an example of two bands that you feel that promoters are pushing as the greatest thing since pussy.

      Well, I’ll look into it, that’s all I can say. I’m not going to just stop this. You’re free to join and I’ve never run from criticism so there you go.

      1. Richard Head says:

        There is plenty of space between apathy and overreaction. I live there.

        You can look into all the war metal and bestial-blackened-post-deathgaze wannabe shit bands and their senseless followers which are really “the problem” with metal currently, but I don’t know what you think you can do about it. At this point in the timeline of metal, it’s up to musicians to save it, not bloggers or facebook groups.

    2. #metalgate may or may not have been a good idea but I’ve found that 1. it’s unneeded (heavy metal doesn’t need to organize to defend itself from social justice censorship) and

      The proof that this is wrong lies in how the frequency of SJW articles has increased at the same time infiltration of metal has increased. The two are related and damaging.

      the real attack on metal comes from the poseurs aping underground legends and being presented by metal promoters as the greatest thing since pussy (Revenge, Diocletian, etc.).

      Let’s move beyond basic logic and realize that this is also a problem. I think the attacks on the NWN/FMP “tryhard” mentality in our SMR articles alone have addressed this.

      I think critics here need to stop being so quick to complain, and more quick to do some actual research on these topics and offer their own work to improve them.

      Otherwise, it’s like the rest of humanity: a bunch of skraeling monkeys flinging poo and then scampering away to find themselves some fruit and self-stim their anuses.

      1. Richard Head says:

        The SJW articles are manufactured for the same exploitative sensationalist reason as any blog or newsgroup manufactures those things; attention.

        Beyond that, there is this dangerous depth of groupthink setting in among the metalgaters; “SJW” is now a demonizing, otherizing term that can be applied to anyone or any group despite the complexities of that person-or-group’s real motivation. The metalgaters don’t care. “You mean venue X won’t let band Y play because the owners thought they had tasteless and obnoxious music?! Muh censorship! Help, help, I’m bein repressed!”

        These jokers have begun to take on the same style of thinking that their sworn enemies have. Go figure; the more people you get in one group, the lower the overall quality of the groups’ responses and decisions in the face of crises.

        1. The SJW articles are manufactured for the same exploitative sensationalist reason as any blog or newsgroup manufactures those things; attention.

          This could be said about any trend which is noticed. “This is just to manufacture attention.”

          “SJW” is now a demonizing, otherizing term that can be applied to anyone or any group despite the complexities of that person-or-group’s real motivation.

          This could be said about any recognition of a group of people with similar aims. “You’re just setting them up for a witch hunt!”

          And yet, we have a huge list of articles and incidents in which certain ideologies were advanced on metal with a clear intent to seize power. And, amazingly, they advocate the same ideology and the same changes, which were not present in 1990s metal.

          Huh.

          But you don’t criticize that. Why, one might ask? Perhaps you would like to manufacture attention for yourself as a dissident voice. It might even make you look cool on the internet. Might help get your professional musician career going.

          1. Richard Head says:

            Yeah totally dude, I plan on retiring by age 30 after gaining massive popularity for the exposure I’ve gotten on a DMU article comments section. Please, spare me; you and I both know that this isn’t the case.

            I have my reasons for not criticizing the SJW-backed articles that you mention, firstly being: WHO CARES? So far, the only people who are freaking out about this supposed social justice infiltration are those without any knowledge of underground metal, its development, and its current state. These ridiculous arguments are below anyone who is familiar with or engaged in underground metal. We don’t need mainstream defense and we haven’t even been threatened by mainstream criticism. It’s an overreaction. The Christian bible and The Art of War both insist that a victor does not engage in battles that do not guarantee a positive outcome or assured victory; metalgate is one of those battles.

            1. So far, the only people who are freaking out about this supposed social justice infiltration are those without any knowledge of underground metal, its development, and its current state.

              So you tell us, but evidence suggests otherwise. More people than those in the metalgate group are involved and see the truth of it. Then there’s that nice long list of articles showing a clear intrusion. You’re not mentioning those for a reason.

              1. Richard Head says:

                The reason that I’m not mentioning any of those article is probably because I have never read them due to either my ignorance or their impotence. I’ve tead about pinking black metal, queer & kvlt, and why metalheads shouldn’t say “faggot” and a handful of others that I cannot see how anyone could take seriously. Since you claim that all of these writing are actually out there and relevant, why don’t you provide a list? I’d be glad to change my mind and see that #metalgate isn’t something to be embarrassed about.

                1. Since you claim that all of these writing are actually out there and relevant, why don’t you provide a list?

                  You must’ve missed the list I posted on an earlier comment. Bet you can find it with your elite compyuter skills.

                  1. Richard Head says:

                    I must have missed it and still can’t find it. I thought I had compyuter skills but I guess all these years of using Apple-only products has weakened them.

          2. Gus S. says:

            I’ve found that the coolest X-Men is Cyclops. His suit is way cool and his super power enables him to attack villains from a distance. Powerful and agile with an awesome aesthetic .

            http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/49448/1430688-cyclops_bigcostume5.jpg

    3. fenrir says:

      I have to agree with Richard here on every point.

      I don’t like that Metalgate is a movement to make Metal accepted by explaining it.

      Metal is relevant because the ideas of the best bands are serious, even if in an allegorical sense. And those who are jokes, well, they’re only jokes. If they are censored it’s for a good reason. Censorship has a purpose. Not everyone should have everything they consider unseemly shoved in their faces.

      This is basically the gringo civil rights movement gone idiotic. Metalgate is comparable to the extreme feminists idiots.

      Slayer has sung about warfare, the dirty side, and about decadence, about twisted minds. It’s reality. Is it scary? yes. Is it a joke? no. Metalgate seems to exist to whine about those who whine about Metal.

      I say LET THEM BE SCARED.

      1. Richard Head says:

        See, take that third paragraph you wrote. This goes completely over the head of the metalgaters, who have no such understanding of WHY metal ought to be defended. Metal is, just like video games, a form of entertainment that they feel they ought not to be deprived of just because it offends some sissies. They have no greater motivation; they don’t know of metal with ideas that are actually dangerous or subversive.

  3. Scott Vogler says:

    Also,

    I plan on walking away from this eventually. I said from the very start that I am NOT the right person for this and I know there are metal heads out there who would be better suited for this.

    If you think that could be you then step up to the plate.

    I did this to defend your right and Metal’s right to be as offensive as you want. I can’t stand censors, sjws, and moralizing mother fuckers who think they’re better than everyone else. I’ve built and continue to build a platform for this to happen. If I’m going about it all wrong, like I said, step up and take it in the right direction.

    1. If I’m going about it all wrong, like I said, step up and take it in the right direction.

      You will find that there is one thing that internet critics will never do, and it is that.

      They will sit in their armchairs and do their best to sound wise, but basically they’re just letting off steam. They are not serious nor are they honest.

      That’s not unusual; most of humanity is that way. Self-deceiving and thus deceptive.

      But in the years I’ve run this site, I’d say criticism outnumbers activity by 100,000 to 1.

    2. Richard Head says:

      That’s an ineffective taunt. I really don’t have time to run a facebutt group (I’m a professional musician) and what the hell would I be able to accomplish with the nerds in #metalgate anyway? There are about 3 actual metalheads in the whole group. Besides one or two occasionally dissenting voices, it’s an echo chamber of “fuck sjws man, right? if i wanna listen to cannibal corpse then i’m gonna!” You guys don’t even have a *good reason* for defending the shit that you do. Hatred? Black Pussy? That shit isn’t even metal and are so boring that I couldn’t care less if they were banned from stores and venues.

      1. I really don’t have time to run a facebutt group (I’m a professional musician) and what the hell would I be able to accomplish with the nerds in #metalgate anyway?

        Excuses, excuses.

        1. Richard Head says:

          Look man, being a roadie/merch slinger for Winds of Genocide is no small deal.

      2. Ara says:

        What bands are you in, Richard?

        1. Richard Head says:

          I’d tell you, but I’d have to kill you.

          1. Ara says:

            Haha come on, I like most of what you like and you have me a good call on the first Sacramentum. I’m not trying to criticize, I genuinely want to hear what you do. And if it’s a worthy contribution to metal then you’ve done your part in this metalgate debate.

            1. Richard Head says:

              I’m not here to promote. I’d rather my comments be taken with a grain of salt without the added weight (positive or negative) of my music. You know, better than anyoe, why I’d choose so. Your band gets needlessly drawn into discussions and that bias obscures the points in discussions.

              1. Ara says:

                I get that, but I always want to hear new stuff that doesn’t suck, which as you know is rare. If you decide you want to share what you do elsewhere, ara has a facebutt you can message.

                1. Richard Head says:

                  I already “like” Ara’s facebutt, I’ll send you some music some time before too long.

                  1. Alfonso Chewbacca says:

                    All these talks of faces and butts

                    Get a room you two

            2. Rar says:

              What do you think of Far Away from the Sun?

              1. Ara says:

                I loved it, and was bummed I wrote them off after hearing The Coming of Chaos and assuming anything before it wouldn’t be better.

                1. Rar says:

                  Awesome.

                  Their ep Finis Malorum is also very good. Another band to check out is Ancient(Svartalvheim and Trolltaar), if you haven’t already.

          2. LostInTheANUS says:

            So Deafheaven?

            1. Ara says:

              I am unfamiliar with Deafhaven but I think I know what they sound like. It’s mostly major key stuff right? Is the hate mainly because they market themselves as black metal, if they do? Are the songs poorly structured? If it was trying to pass itself as more mbv than black metal, would it be alright?

              1. hypocrite says:

                It is that they are marketed as black metal, but safe and nice, mixed with more palatable genres and without any “scary” ideas (so that their fans can still consider themselves unique and edgy without having to actually be either).

                Since many people with “eclectic tastes” know what black metal sounds like at this point, anyone can make music that has some aesthetics of black metal but does not share a (n even remotely) similar outlook.

              2. I blew my head off like Per Ohlin says:

                Envy with blast beats is a more suitable description of Deafheaven.

                1. Ara says:

                  That doesn’t sound overwhelmingly bad. Envy has some good material.

              3. Richard Head says:

                Their first album Roads to Judah is fairly good screamo-revival. The supposed shoegaze and black metal influences are nom-existent though. Haven’t heard anything else from them and have always beem confused why they are mentioned along with black metal. Envy with d-beats is a pretty accurate description.

      3. Scott Vogler says:

        I think you brought up some valid criticisms Richard.

        You’re still welcome to join the group Richard. I think your input on that one point would be extremely valuable for others to hear.
        https://www.facebook.com/groups/MetalGateBand/

        I just don’t think you’ll do it though.

        So, I will do it for you.

        1. I think this is one of the amazing things about #metalgate: it isn’t based on complex ideology. It is (1) stop censoring our music and (2) we know you’re doing it through unofficial, decentralized means now. Beyond that, it is wide open.

  4. Concerned Citizen says:

    I got turned off by this whole “#metalgate” thing the moment I saw a video of some kid claiming he was “anti-SJW” but not before mentioning that “Burzum is racist” and he “doesn’t even like them” to make things “okay” (it was on an article here). Seems to me like the same run-of-the-mill moron who would be an SJW otherwise got swept up to spout memes for the other team.

    Even like mentioned in another comment above, bands that “keep it real” by playing this “war metal” style are what’s destroying metal. Watain may make anti-P.C. statements, but the music is tremolo picked glam rock. This brings in more idiots into metal who will “combat SJW mentality” with metal that is/will become more degraded than the humming background meme it’s been reduced to for over a decade. See the timeline of metal quality from Onward to Golgotha all the way to whatever Dark Descent Records farted out this week for further reference.

    I don’t think there is a problem in the social/political sense that’s anything new. Back then we had Stryper and Mortification. Now we have Deafheaven and Deathspell Omega. From Faith No More to Cynic to Opeth, it seems inevitable that this decay will set out into the world.

    Think about how all the bands that were good back then were self-contained in countries without “Burger King culture”. Finland brought Demilich and Skepticism. In the USA and UK, it seems only a matter of time before society takes it’s toll and the “microwave mentality” sinks in (see Deicide and Carcass for example). When the music is still bad and the only thing worth mentioning are events perpetuated by outsiders trying to turn it into a surrogate for [insert “cause” here], you know the microwave mentality has swept across the land.

    1. I don’t think there is a problem in the social/political sense that’s anything new. Back then we had Stryper and Mortification. Now we have Deafheaven and Deathspell Omega.

      They didn’t have media behind them. Wake up, you’re asleep.

      1. Richard Head says:

        How many people are into underground metal AND care that much about what modern media has to say? I may be wrong but from what I see so far, you either overestimate the influence of media or you underestimate the perceptive ability of the underground metal “participants” (including listeners and creators).

        1. How many people are into underground metal AND care that much about what modern media has to say?

          The point is to create an audience out of hipsters and use it to replace the underground metal audience, and thus replace underground metal. Competition in markets is a real thing, and we’re already seeing the effects.

          1. Richard Head says:

            So, you fear underground metal being replaced by hipster metal. Is that your root motivation? If so, I back your efforts, but I fail to see how #metalgate is helping you along the way. My fault, no doubt. Explain?

          2. 1349 says:

            Hmm, so it’s similar to what the democratic party does to the US… Import second and third world and use them as electorate.

  5. 1349 says:

    I don’t want to know what the hell metalgate is (it all seems internet drama) and very rarely visit FSBook (=facebutt), but this guy is surprisingly intelligent. I’d probably work with him if i lived in the same country/state.

  6. Erik the Red says:

    I guess this is a question I wish someone would answer, because no one addresses it. If we have many different groups in our society, of different types (religion, race, sexual orientation, etc), and each group is offended by at least one things ­­ usually where it disagrees with another group how do we unite these groups into a society?

    The collectivist premise hidden in the question is the very thing that metal rejects. Metal resists the subjugation of the “I” to the purposes of the collective (“we unite these groups”), does it not??

    Even the rock ‘n’ roll posturing Judas Priest gets this: “It’s easy to go along with the crowd, but find later on, your say ain’t allowed; that’s the way to find what you’ve been missing”.

    So….as long as we accept collectivism as any sort of ideal, and accept that moral action is for the benefit of others then we’ll always regard individualism as (temporary, as in “youthful rebellion) solipsistic subjective (and consumerist) whim.

    1. 1349 says:

      “The collectivist premise hidden in the question is the very thing that metal rejects. Metal resists the subjugation of the “I” to the purposes of the collective (“we unite these groups”), does it not??”

      “It’s easy to go along with the crowd”

      Good metal cares quite little for the “I”, the “self”.
      It speaks more about death, violence, war, gods, the other world, etc.

      Also, you’re mixing up a crowd (collective) and a corporation (… party, army freikorps). The latter is something you join deliberately and are to share its goals and comply to its rules or leave.
      A good society is one which has a goal and is thus similar to a corporation.

  7. Erik the Red says:

    My common usage leads to inconsistencies: …as long as individuals accept collectivism as any sort of ideal, and accept that one’s moral action is for the benefit of others, then individualism will always be regarded as temporary, “youthful”, rebellion based on solipsistic, subjective and consumerist whim.

  8. hater says:

    It’s nice that this boy has a project to keep himself busy, and it’s cute when the inane posture with intellect and importance.

  9. bighatfbw says:

    underground metal is only slightly older than the era of political correctness (i.e., Clinton presidency, early-mid 90s). it’s been an ongoing war between the purity of sound & ideas against increasingly broadening, increasilingly profitable horizons. pagan fears; the past is alive.

  10. Laguz says:

    Okay guys, let’s get real here.

    This whole SJW thing is an internet only thing. This is why the internet was made available to the average person, so they can get into these little wars over stupid shit. The SJW’s are just hipsters, there isn’t any new culture for them to pose in, so they are just copying 60’s protest shit, this is just a pose. As far as all the articles Brett talks about, all that shit is just click bait, the internet is pretty much click bait at this point, people remember how Metal was back in the day and they are just digging up shit for page views and ad revenue. Why? Because rap music isn’t offensive or popular to White people anymore, so they have to keep something going so they choose Metal, hell, if it was the 90’s all these SJW’s would be wiggers. This site is just getting in on the action just like the rest of them…

    1. This is why the internet was made available to the average person, so they can get into these little wars over stupid shit.

      I find this most interesting. 2010s internet = 1980s daytime TV.

      The SJW’s are just hipsters, there isn’t any new culture for them to pose in, so they are just copying 60’s protest shit, this is just a pose.

      I agree here, but that does not mean their actions will not have consequences. Delusion is no defense.

      As far as all the articles Brett talks about, all that shit is just click bait

      I disagree here. If I wanted to write clickbait, I’d make it more violent and interesting.

      1. Lord Mosher says:

        Free hugs for all!

      2. Laguz says:

        The articles that you wrote were responses to click bait.

        Dude, no lies at all, but the SJW’s are really nobodies. They won’t damage Metal, this isn’t like Tipper Gore, these are just people farting around on the internet because they are losers in real life, while in real life outside of the internet, Metal is underground underground, people outside of the scene don’t know or really care, and hipsters will push it for like a year and then quit because they can’t use the image because nobody knows or cares what it is, that’s why “hipster Metal” died.

        As far as the internet goes, it was given to people to stop creativity, and give you a fake world to live in. That’s why there are no new movements, people just go on the internet and on sites like this one and just talk and talk without creating shit. People getting into stupid wars that only mean anything online…Back then, people got sick of Speed Metal, they made Death Metal, got sick of that then they made Black Metal. The internet got big and people channeled their energies into bitching on the internet, just like the government wanted you to. So now it’s “blah blah blah Metal iz dead! Hipzters killed it wahh wahh wahh” but back in the day people would be making something new, now it’s just either you bitch about things or you pose.

        That’s why Metal is dead, everyone hopped on the internet instead of living in the real world…Life is Spirit expressing itself through Matter like an artist expressing themselves though art, talking and bitching on the internet isn’t art because it isn’t real life.

        Hipsters got big because Spirit is trying to tell us to make something new, and everyone wants to fight hipsters. It’s GEBURAH sillies….

        So where’s yall’s music at?

        1. They won’t damage Metal, this isn’t like Tipper Gore, these are just people farting around on the internet because they are losers in real life

          That may be true of the ones who are not in media, labels or bands.

          That’s why Metal is dead, everyone hopped on the internet instead of living in the real world…

          If only it were that easy! Always blame the method, never the choices of people regarding quality.

          Very typical.

          1. Laguz says:

            Brett Bretty Brett, you go on and on, but….

            Wheres your music at dude?

            It’s cool to promote bands and all, but why aren’t you making any music? You say all this and that, but in the real world, when things go to pot, people make new things, they don’t promote and fight over old dead things like people do on the internet. You fell into the trap dude, seriously. You say you don’t like the elite but you are playing their game. At this rate, there will never be any new Metal because people either just talk, complain, or pose, so what do you expect? You want things done, do it yourself, be a leader, you have all the knowledge already…

            People on this site talk quality this and quality that, but wheres the music at? Cause if this site was a society, it would of died a loooonnnng time ago, yes siree bob. You can’t sit and talky talk when you are starving, you will die…

            1. why aren’t you making any music?

              Oh, this old thing. Let’s see if I can dig up the old responses…

              Where’s my pottery at? Or my writing in Japanese?

              The answer: I am a writer in English. That is what I do.

              Where’s your writing in English?

              1. Cortez says:

                I agree about this type of assertion is old. Why criticize music if you don’t make any music of your own? Why criticize movies if you yourself have never made a movie? Why criticize a painting when you have never painted anything better? Ability to produce an art form may give you one different perspective on the art, but it doesn’t mean only the art-maker’s perspective is the only valid one. If a criticism is based in objectivity, it is just as valid (if not more in most cases) than an art-makers “opinion”.

                1. True. And critique (analysis, synthesis) requires an entirely different mind and specialist. Very few musicians do it well either.

                  1. Laguz says:

                    Blah, blah, blah…Yeah, keep talking and complaining when you have knowledge that you don’t do anything with while what you love dies. At this rate, the SJW’s should take over Metal, it’s only right. Nothing but a bunch of backseat drivers here…

                    1. Yeah, keep talking and complaining when you have knowledge that you don’t do anything with while what you love dies.

                      You were complaining about us “doing something,” namely publishing articles and drawing attention to this.

                      What have you done?

                    2. Laguz says:

                      What have I done? Dude, I’m on here reading the site because I need to learn about what Metal is so I can make some music. You keep saying Metal is that under attack, dude Metal is always under attack because it goes agaisnt society, so what’s the point of talking about it all the time? If you feel like that, make some music, you can only talk but for so long before you need to take action, real people walk it, fake people talk it. The people who made classics didn’t sit around and bitch and moan like this all the time, they did stuff, and the way I see it if you want something that bad then you go and do it. I know you will reply with some pollyanna shit to try and make me look stupid or whatever but people who are in the real world and are real will understand what I’m saying and that’s all that matters here when the rubber hits the road…

                      And yeah, the internet killed creativity because in the real world, in order for something to be created, there needs to be tension…Do you know about the rune Nauthiz? Before internet/cell phones there was tension, and the people who created art figured that it was better to release that tension in creative acts that were guided intuituvely by spirit than go to war with the whole world. Look at Metal, people made Metal because they didn’t like society and the had tension wit it. Then you get internet and now if you have tension you can just go blow it off on a comment section like this one. If internet was around back then, there never would of been art dude. It’s the same thing with the birth rate, people wanted to get laid they did what they had to do, now they watch porn and masturbate and then they don’t want sex and then the birth rate drops, isnt that what is supposedly happening in the 1st world? That’s why you have all the 3rd world crappy Metal now, they don’t have internet to release tension but they dont have it in them to create art. Does what I just explained to you sound typical? You need to get out of your ivory tower dude, seriously…

                    3. So, nothing, and you’re angry about that. Got it.

                    4. Laguz says:

                      Uhhhhh no, I’m in the process of doing something because I have tension within me. You? Youre fiddling around while the city burns. You are on the internet so much, all the tension got sucked out of you and it’s funny how I tell you that the internet killed creativity and you say that it’s a typical response, but yet you don’t mention a thing about what I said when I explained why it did.

                      Tension is the key to creation. The libido is the key to life. Tension and libido are the same. Get rid of tension and you kill the libido. No tension, no libido, no creativity, no art. Control sexual libido, control society. Internet allows people to waste tension. Connect the dots.

                      Classic albums/new styles are not coming out because there is no tension, the only people making music are internet posers who want their ego stroked. Dude, how many demos did Morbid Angel, Incantation and the other have compared to now in which bands jump into making albums? Shit, I’d rather take my time in releasing something.

                      And you say that SJWs are making their own Metal to replace the real one, and your response is to post articles on the internet? Uh, no this is spirit telling you to make something new that the SJWs can’t get into. That’s what goes on in the real world, not this internet fake world…

                      Me = create, You = talk.

                    5. You’re typing on the internet.

                    6. Laguz says:

                      Wow.

  11. trystero says:

    https://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore#q=metalgate

    This has been a bit of noise on obscure tumblr blog level feminist screech holes plus mention of that noise a couple of times on related mainstream`s-retarded-cousin websites. All of it is driven by people involved in gamergate. The reaction one is likely to get with mention of metalgate on any kind of metal community is `huh?`.

    Its pretty transparent how this all ties into political stuff etc. but it has nothing to do with metal. The best support you can give it is giving it the time of day, which really you should know full well so the assumption that this is manufactured is very on point. The made up part is pretending this is relevant to metal. The movie reviews are more relevant…

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