Deteriorate (Pennsylvania, USA) got their start as a band solidly and unmistakenly death metal of the violent American variety. Their debut Rotting in Hell, one of the premier domestic outputs of the infamous JL America label, broke little ground, but nonetheless manages to get spins from old-timers who have long appreciated its compact composition and caustic delivery. Not long after this sleeper semi-classic the band abandoned their death metal pursuits in favor of a faster, more melodic and hybridized style in line with the rising popularity of the European black metal of the day.

Interview from Heidenlarm e-zine #1.

Deteriorate Rotting in Hell came out near the end of the death metal boom, right before black metal became predominant in the eyes of many listeners. What was it like at that time to contemplate the styles in which you could compose?

Personally I was seriously into black metal since the begining…in fact if you noticed the change in styles between “Rotting in Hell” and “Gather the nebbish/The Senectuous Entrance” you can see my influences shining through out the whole cd; I wrote nearly half of the music on “Gather/Senectuous” around 1994…I was so saturated with old black/death metal like Venom, Bathory, Eestruction, Voivod, Slayer, Sodom, Kreator that it just flowed naturally in any riffs I would be writing…I mean I saw Kreator’s first US tour[I believe] at City Gardens in Trenton NJ with Voivod I think it was “Pleasure to Kill/Killing Technology” tour – this fucking show was so fucking brutal, I was blown the fuck away, it still to this day had to have been the most influential moment in my life, as I watched them play flawlessly I said to myself that’s what I want to do and I’m going to do whatever it takes to get there…so I played everyday for years until I was 17 formed my first band it was called “randomdraw” a hardcore/metal band we sounded like cromags vs rage against the machine…anyway after a few years of other bands and stuff I joined Deteriorate which is a long story in itself!…so my goal with them was to take it to the next level get so into the music and just fucking go apeshit and I think it all worked out perfectly…..

It seems to me that death metal has always had two opposing sides, one of which emphasizes fast tremolo picking and relatively few emphatic pauses, while the other side uses muffled strumming and a morse code of pausing and pounding to spell out its riffs. What made you gravitate toward the faster metal side?

When I started playing guitar in ’82 I thought that metal had a missing element that hardcore bands seemed to emphasize on “speed”. So I started playing as fast as I could thinking that it would make me more talented as a player…so I would write these riffs and put them together with my younger brother Justin and we would play these blazing fast songs full of ‘squeals’ and violent solos like Slayer or Cryptic Slaughter…but after some time speed wasn’t good enough so I added into my style harmony&melody…I wanted something different say warmer tones, so I got into Malmsteen alot and Voivod, Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Motley Crue, Iron Maiden, Celtic Frost ‘morbid tales'[my favorite guitar sound ever], Exodus, Violence, Metallica, Megadeth, Bathory, Anvil Bitch, Dominance, Faith or Fear, Flotsam and Jetsam, Death & tons more…I started going to 2 to 3 shows a week it was so intense there were lines down the street; as I saw these bands perform in the early mid 80’s I was blown away it was so intense my world had become near perfect! At the same time I was extremely jealous, I thought to myself why can’t I do that? There was one reason why —drummers—there is such a shortage of quality drummers that could do blaast beats or grind or doublebass let alone afford a decent kit…I was so into technical metal that it made it even harder to find someone.

There were fewer people involved with death and black metal in that time, unlike the current scenario. What do you think are the differences in a musician’s experience between the two?

Nowadays its more open to all; the styles combined, there are a thousand times more muscicians that are dying to play…equipment is far more affordable and more directed towards metal hard rock players…the nu-metal styles are bringing more people to wards heavier music especially women! I always thought that if you could get women into your band then men would follow hence bringing your numbers at the door up at the club you’re playing…

What to you makes a series of chords and rhythms a “riff”?

I’m always looking for something different or catchy or “hook” riffs…riffs that make you say “hell yeah that rips” and your hair stands up on your whole body…or like in the 80s the introduction of the word “mosh”or “not” where anthrax introduced to me the true pit styles I actually went nuts at every show we all our own style of moshing or dancing,or the dive kings, we tried every kind of dive you could think of it was a contest to us to see how long you could stay on stage or how long you could wave ride…it was the best years of my life it was so fresh new different and the normal people didn’t even notice any of these bands we were such a minority back then, I was always saying in school that Metallica will be the biggest band ever and 10 years later I was damn near right…I was the only kid in my juniore high with an earring and a denim jacket with death metal patches all over it…

Fo you compose by riff assembly, or is there a pattern into which riffs fit first?

Actually I have an odd style of writing I usually number the riffs along with names for each part and write it all down,so if I forget I have notes…in Deteriorate I played bass but I wrote the riffs on my 7string and brought my guitar to practice where I showed them the riffs…my newer bands I play guitar and sing on almost everything…I write all the music and vocals and let my drummer mike trush write the drum parts…I usually write all the music in my head at work and then go home and play my ass off…

Many of your songs on Rotting in Hell preserved a casual but intense atmosphere of using little introduction and tearing into the material on hand immediately. Was this a reaction to the riff-salad-heavy metal songs of the time, which often took half of the song just to get cooking?

Actually I didn’t play anything on “Rotting,” although I was in the band months before the recording sessions, I was asked to play on “Rotting” but it didn’t feel right playing songs on a disc that I had no part in writing so I declined…if you asked me about “Gather/Senectuous” I would have to say they were flowing and melodic…
lyrically, the band also played at least two sides, having some “gore” topics and a fair number that could have been interpreted as more gothic, romantic or moribund.

What inspired the lyric writing on this album?

As far as “Gather the Nebbish,” I sang 3 songs and wrote a major part of the music, my lyrics were directed towards my hatred towards a society that hates people like me…I would first get into a raging pissed off mood then write the music then the lyrics would just kind of “bleed” to me,you know what I mean?..I went in the studio and basically freaked out in the vocal booth screaming my heart out jumping around like a fucking lunatic,..in fact 2 of the songs I sang on “Gather” came about on the spot, I did the vocals on one take not even rehearsing them once: Evaporated Battleground/Ode to a Mortal” my good friend Trevor Schaible donated those 2 sets of lyrics and I took them in the studio and ad libbed the songs it just so happened they came out pretty good in my opinion total chaos!!

After Rotting in Hell, Deteriorate took a break. What happened during this time?

We went through some member changes and more of my writing came into effect, we really spent a lot of time rehearsing doing shows and getting more professional about ourselves and we said to ourselves what can we do to make this band better and more brutal and so we did just that…

After this break you released, The Senectuous Entrance, which in my view is two albums put together — one that could be described as Emperor-style gothic black metal, and another that was more heavy metal/punkish. What brought about this dichotomy?

I basically came into the band with alot of the ideas already to go, I brought to the band my musical background and it took over I guess…I never really heard any of the newer black/death metal bands, which bothered me when people said we are a rip of of Norweigan bands, its totally not the truth, I was doing this type of music inthe early 80s I was playing the 3rds minor this dissonant that you name it ..if you notice “Rotting” has none of the harmonies and minor chords, I brought that to the band and we took off with it, I was in bands prior to that which had similiar traits…

Your songs convey as much energy as any other band out there. How do you do it?

I tend to think to myself if I was in the crowd or a listener what would I want to hear and I do it…energy is the first priority nowadays in my band “Treading on Divine” I do simpler arrangements but it works for me, there is more flowing riffs and catchy hooks…

The band has been around since 1991. How do you think metal, or death metal, has changed over the course of that time?

All the genres have improved with the times…certain bands keep their styles others evolve into something different I think both scenarios work,it gives fans an oppurtunity to hear something new therefore creating another rip in the timeline for a new genre..

How has Deteriorate as a band integrated those changes into its music?

Currently Deteriorate is rehearsing for a new release in the future but Mike Trush and myself are quite busy so it takes some time to get it together…other members are in Krypton or not doing music at all…

Your songs are convoluted in the logic that produces continuity between their riffs, enough that they must be heard through once fully before being interpreted. How do you think the awareness of this process in the listener affects how you compose?

It gives me a flowing feel to it, I can sit and bob my head continuosly from start to finish, I can only assume that our fans or listeners do the same thing…it has that warm feeling about it…the 5 unreleased songs have a brutal chaotic war type sound to it, but we still incorporated the Deteriorate flow and sound to it…

When you are composing a song and have two directions in which it can go, how do you select which one should prevail?

It was always a band vote or else we would just open jam and if it went in some new direction that sounded cool we would work with it…it’s truly important to find muscicians that you can openly do unplanned jams ,its usually where you find a truly nwew and original riff,where as when you are at home there is no drums or band influence there to strengthen the song or give you a nod or an added riff between another riff….

You seem to be a non-political band, as far as lyrics are concerned. Do you have any political or social change views that you keep to yourself, or are you detached from the entire process of politics and ideology?

Personally I try to incorporate politics or truth in my lyrics, these topics enrage me making my songs come out even more chaotic, I try to let the lyrics influence my choice of riffs after the song is written of course, the lyrics might change a part into something different or brutal…

The USA may be about to wage holy war on Iraq and the Middle East. Is this a metal topic to discuss?

Yes and no…I feel it’s all a front to keep americans intrested in the politics of this country…the president has to do something to keep his people supporting him…with all the things like snipers, Iraq, WTC and racism, he can shift the peoples attention away from starting a war with Iraq, he made everybody shift their attention from Iraq to the snyper atacks, getting everyone pissed off, so now the people are hungry for some desruction somewhere other than here, and to make it work even better the one snipers last name was Muhammad…it worked, he’s got the ok to wage a war on Iraq, I’m not surprised and I do support this war…these people need a leader that has enough brains not fuck with the most powerful country in the world, us!!!

Do you think that music conveys values based upon what positive beliefs are affirmed in the music, even in simply its sound which resembles facets of the outside world?

It does…music has been the center of attention since the beginning of its creation…it can take you out of reality or define reality and it seems that both work very well…I mean people take a cd put it in then something happens, almost chemically in their brain and it feels good,others feel bad or angry or something, its amazing how this works…I always thought that you could totally control or program people of all ages through certain notes played in precise actions in the brain, when I hear certain notes a feel it all over my body its really quite remarkable [I hope this made some sense to you, I think I understand what I just said hahaha]

Is it possible to be a musician without sharing some of your views through music?

Definitely… I’m really into Burzum, Varg does an excellent job at creating a soundscape, it’s total headphone music, which is one of my favorite ways of listening, Varg uses his feelings and beliefs through beautiful music, but yet you can still understand his anger and pains…Mortiis does similar work but his feelings tend to be fantasy like or dungeons and dragons theme music, both are excellent…

You’re now working on new material with a band called Treading on Divine. This title seems to have more metaphysical implications than the gore-metal-ish idea of Deteriorate. What is different about the music and outlook of Treading on Divine as compared to Deterioriate?

“Treading on Divine” is a project that I started around 98 right around the breakup of Deteriorate myself and joe gorski were fed up with the scene in Philly so we moved to south florida and started playing…he was on drums and I played and sang..eventually we grabbed my brother [who is the best guitarist I’ve ever seen] and Conrad Eddings on bass…we had 3 songs and so it was born…down the road we fell into the party scene down there 3 of us worked in nightclubs so if we weren’t working we were partying thus the band suffered…I had also another band with the samme members except Chris Dino plyed drums that was called ‘twitch’ it was really good stuff….so eventually we after 2 years parted ways I moved back north and started the band with other people, Thorous-lead guitar, Mike Trush-drums, Chris Berwind-bass and Alex Davis-guitar….we rehearsed about a year and 2 of the members didn’t progress so I let them go, now it’s myself, Trush and filling in on bass Jason Hildebrandt from Funeral Mask, Cemetary Earth, Hazarax…we’re ready to record a EP..full length soon the title is “thy only god”..the difference between Deteriorate and treading is I write all the music and arrangements, they’re more flowing and basic riffs…it has black, grind,melody,harmonies,thrash,death styles…in Deteriorate the riffs were all voted on whether I liked it or not so alot of good riffs got trashed, since I saved these riffs and used them now,so some of these songs are quite old…we do one song called “Viral Gore” which is from 1988; some are from 89, these are more thrashy,…the “Treading” songs have “hooks” that make you say hell yeah! As far as the lyrics “Treading on Divine” is based upon my hatred towards authority, I don’t like being told what to do, ever! Not by anyone including my girlfriends….this is the topic I have been griping about forever…i get political on some sogs others are about my nonreligon attitude…being my own god and all that…

What bands are you listening to now?

Voivod-Deathrow-DBC-Burzum-Devil Doll-Elend-Marilyn Manson-Ozzy/Sabbath-Golden Dawn-Entombed-Dismember-Fantomas-Mr. Bungle-Thorns-Abruptum-Mayhem-Behemoth-Venom-Destruction-Kreator-Sodom -Vond-Ulver-old W.A.S.P.-Metallica-Megadeth-Slayer-Darkthrone-Mercyful Fate-Celtic Frost-Belphegor-Tartaros-Tomahawk-Jimmy Rodgers-Sabbat-Immolation-Exodus-Emperor-Autopsy-Laibach-Bloodstorm-Se rvants of Hate-Funeral Mask-LiveSufferDie-Ministry-Christian Death-Violence-Anthrax-Forbidden-Abigor… I could go on forever!

It appears the downturn in the US and world economies has affected metal. Are you able to find a label at this point in time? Are you going to self-release this upcoming album?

Actually Philadelphia has so many labels here…I am talking with a few labels none that I want to name just yet but I have made mistakes with labels in the past and I don’t want to lose money and touring again. When I first joined Deteriorate we had tons of touring offers, some with morbidangel for 40 dates but our drummer had a custody battle going on so he couldn’t do the tours, eventually that was why we replaced him with Darkwoods, Rich was a great drummer though…

How do you think the internet has changed music, from your first album in 1993 to your second in 1996, and now to the current time?

The internet is excellent for underground bands like us to get exposure…it’s amazing how much stuff is out there…I can always find something interesting on the web….

Do you think most metallers have a common general direction of their ideology, or is there no unity in thought in the scene?

I honestly think everybody is different anymore, I always hear different opinions about every topic…,sure theres unity but not really where i’m at…i live in a city that has everybody thinking differently I don’t know why…theres always bands that are jealous of others or pissed offf that they’re opening for a band that they think sucks,i’ve been dealing with this shit since 89…we used to get every tour package that came through philly no matter who was headlining the tour we always got the top slot on the bill…this made all the local bands hate us instead of supporting us which would come back to them in the end…i think nowadays its different theres more unity in the scene…back in the 90s we could’ve all stuck together and the philly scene would’ve been the next tampa bay thing,instead when the cell block closed the bands dissapated,noone astuck to gether and bands broke up, its a shame because we really had some good bands in our scene,to tell you the truth most of those bands are like invisible because I haven’t seen many of those muscians again….

After the rise of nu-metal and bands like Slipknot, does metal any longer have the “coming in from the outfield” strangeness and dramatic impact that it once had?

I feel that this is the metal years all over again, history is repeating itself but in a grander way…a majority of people today appreciate metal and hard rock, its not that uncommon anymore,you hear metal on the radio everyday…we have such a wide variety of bands to chose from along with a generation of people that grew up om metal ranging from 10 to 40 years old….most like something heavy if not ozzy/sabath then metallica or godsmack or something…to me this is positive for the scene…
why metal? it’s not an easy artform, there’s no money and most people seem to hate it or disparage it. why do you keep going? (this is not a criticism, hopefully obviously, since i’m still in this after as many years too!)

I can’t stop! I love it the heavier it is the better….then again everybody will probably hate me for this but I like Marilyn Manson alot…his music is super creative, its full of hate, evil, and other postive shit that just makes him an icon for heavy mainstream music he’s actually helping the world get into heavy music which opens the doors for bands like mine,he has the flow we were talking about earlier, I am open minded to some degree….I like stuff from almost every genre doesn’t mean its good for everybody else, but it’s good to me and I don’t care what anybody thinks….who cares what I listen to anyway you know? To each his own….theres a litttle bit of everyting in bands today it means that awider range of audiences will buy into heavier music…[i hope]…

If you could tour with two or three bands from anywhere and anytime in metal, who would it be?

Voivod!!!!!!!Slayer!!!Morbid Angel!!!

Where do you think metal will go next?

Its going to get even bigger, I know I want more of it and I’m not going anywhere but more angrier then before…I have more anger in me than ever before and I need bands to fuel my fire!!!

Jazz, ambient, industrial, and punk: all of them exist as separate genres, niches if you will, from the mainstream as does metal. But somehow jazz and ambient get more respect and never quite fully are able to integrate with the mainstream of radio music. Do you think this is due to increased technicality, radically unpopular song structures, ability of audience to appreciate complexity, or other factors? Do you think this same distancing from mainstream radio music could help metal?

Maybe the jazz thing is of the other half of society that doesn’t listen to rock or metal or mainstream music…it could be an older generation or possibly the trained muscicians of the world are more appreciated…I know I’ve never had a lesson in my life but it still kept me busy and somewhat talented…

It used to be there were tons of zines, and people mailing stickers and dubbed cassettes all over the world. Metalheads today trade web links and mp3s, and there are now thousands of websites each offering small fragments of information. Where is this weak(er), and what’s next after this? Do you think metal will consolidate its information?

it can only get better,the more publicity for my style of music the better…

Do you believe humanity is about to blow itself into vapor?

Not really its pretty much the way its always been to me, bullshit, politicians, religon it’s all always there its just a matter of what you buy into…

What has changed about the songwriting process for Treading on Divine that is separate from how Deteriorate worked in both incarnations?

Actually not much maybe different tempos or not so much blast and grind beats…I have been working on more catchier riffs that have a more grooving sound to them its still in the black/death metal vein…

Who’s in the band now?

Thorous[guitar/vox] Mike Trush[drums/vox/bass]

Are you going to repress Rotting in Hell and The Senectuous Entrance?

Actually we have the original recording of “Rotting in Hell” which was recorded at an entirely different rcording studio…the vox are even more brutal..we are going to release it soon with the original cover that was deemed to satanic for our onr guitar player….

Where do you hope to be in ten years?

hopefully touring the world and playing brutal music forever!!!!!!!

What do you do outside of metal, as individuals, and who is in the band?

I have my historic renovations business…I do old world/european style stonework and replications. I’m planning to do a house in Spain this spring, its my other passion in life!!

Any final additions?

Its cool to know that there’s people out there still into Deteriorate and the old school metal bands…I appreciate any people who would like a copy of unreleased material and videos…send me tapes and postage to: thorous—-170 smithtown rd. pipersville,PA 18947 Keep the metal world alive! Don’t give up playing your instruments,follow your dreams, I had dreams when I started playingt and so many came true, if I can do it anyone can do it! Keep trying your best,sing your heart out! Play all day and night! Make a difference, speak your mind! Don’t take any shit from anyone! Don’t let anyone push you around, you’re only as powerful as you believe you are! Keep metal alive! Kick some ass! – And support the local bands in your area, without people like you local bands will fade away, go to as many shows as you can, and buy as much merchandise as you can, it will come back to you in some way! Thanks for giving me the chance to vent SRP! – thorous…treading on divine….

The natural inequality of the two powers of population and of production in the earth and that great law of our nature which must constantly keep their effects equal form the great difficulty that to me appears insurmountable in the way to the perfectibility of society. All other arguments are of slight and subordinate consideration in comparison to this. No fancied equality, no agrarian regulations in their utmost extent, could remove the pressure of it even for a single century. And it appears, therefore, to be decisive against the possible existence of a society, all the members of which should live in ease, happiness, and comparative leisure; and feel no anxiety about providing the means of subsistence for themselves and families.

Consequently, if the premises are just, the argument is conclusive against the perfectibility of the mass of mankind.

– Thomas Malthus, Population: The First Essay (1798)

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Anders Odden is here with us from the band Cadaver, inc. He was an original member of Cadaver by its release schedule, and was with them on their two most popularly-known works on Earache records. He has now launched with others Cadaver, inc., which is an entirely different type of music within the same genre.

When did Cadaver form and what bands inspired the members at the time?

The first Cadaver was formed when a Black metal band called Baphomet split in 1988. We then got the bassplayer from Decay Lust and recorded the first album in 1989/90. The bands who inspired us at the time were Voivod, Slayer, Carcass, Celtic Frost and Morbid Angel.

Do any of you have strong political, religious, or philosophical beliefs, and what are they?

I’m a public enemy. I doubt that anything created by man ever will bring us to a higher level. I deny the church and all its powersymbols. Why is it that all the main religions come out of the middle east?! Religon and politics are there to oppress people. I feel the life we have today is basically without any goals and I’d like to own a little stuff as possible. I tend to get lots of shit piled up anyway, but I’m a fan of throwing stuff away. I dont know, maybe I’m full of BS…

If a drunken man falls down the stairs, he does not feel what would be painful for me. Some say the same applies to youthful indifference to death. How do you feel this influenced, if at all, your music?

I don’t think it had anything to do with what our music was. We just wanted to be able to play as good as our favorite bands, nothing more.

Did you have any favorites in the Swedish death metal genre? What did you think of God Macabre, Demigod, Dismember and Therion?

Not really. Of the bands you mention I’ve only heard Dismember and Therion. I like Black metal more than death metal.

Now that you’ve come back with Cadaver, inc., are people responding to the older material as well as the newer? Are you going to repress the first two albums?

We have played Innominate and Corrosive Delirium from Hallucinating and Mr. Tumour’s Misery from In pains… live. Those songs go down really well, but Earache has no plans for reissuing yet. It will be done some day with lots of extrastuff on it I guess. I have tons of live, demos and unreleased shit around my house, so it will be done.

It seems to me that …In Pains is from the same era as the first Darkthrone album, where metal experimented with mood and mellower textures in the death metal style. What inspired this album’s genesis?

This is easy to say now looking back. It’s never in your thought when you make stuff what the historic aspect of things will be. In Pains was released around the same time as Blaze in the Northern sky, so I felt we were very different band then. In 1992 I turned into industrial music for some time and didn’t follow black metal until 95 again. I saw the death metal era end in 92/93 when black metal revitalized everything, but felt it was my past and didnt care that much. You got to remember that the difference between death/black wasnt that obvious before 91/92. Mobid Angel is the best example of a band in between the genres. I always wanted to gain that sort of independent ground for my stuff and this is where I feel Cadaver Inc. belong. Along towards the genres and trends.

The first album had a tuba player as a member of the band. While some called this a gimmick, it seemed a natural experiment at thetime, since the tuba provides a gnarly low-end sound that could complement higher guitars.

What do you think of this when looking back upon it, and for what reason was this choice made?

It was trombone. You have to remember that Celtic Frost inspired us very much in the experimenting with things such as this. Into the Pandemonium and To Megatherion have lots of “brass” sections and weird things in it. It is still our intro when we play live, so it’s a trademark I guess.

Who are your personal musical idols?

In metal it’s forever Slayer, Celtic Frost, Voivod and Morbid Angel. These bands offer their own personal twist that you can hear on all their records. Apart from this I’m a big fan of classical composers such as Grieg and Mozart. They are true genius.

If you recorded another album in the worldview of the original Cadaver, what do you think it would be?

It will never happen.

What’s next for Cadaver, inc? Are you planning to evolve further in the direction that seems to be current, or taking a different step?

We have started working on the next album and I can reveal that it’s going to be much darker than this one. If Discipline is a agressive record the next will be more insane. I have left some of the writing to our drummer Czral this time, and his ideas are very sick. It’s very inspiring to have a band with such a high level of musicalityflowing. We are sure the next record will bring us a long step forward and that’s our focus all the time.

You mention that you like throwing things away. This touches a part of all of us I think that wishes to be unencumbered by material things. I’ve noticed many of the more intelligent people I know choose to live light given the unstable nature of the times and the tedious requirements of having stuff. It also resembles the destruction of memories and irrelevant or enslaving alliances, metaphorically and in dreams (from the relation of others). Do you think that removal or consolidation of stuffs, let’s call it garbage removal, is philosophically significant at this time in history?

You are probably right that this is something lots of people now are turning to. I think it’s a reaction towards the main-religion now, which is consumerism. Some people feel very attached to their stuff, and I think it’s a disturbing thing to be this way. We think what we have is important to us, but it’s all tools or necessities for living. The last time I moved me and my wife gave away 5 (!) big plastic bags of clothing. It’s ridiculous to have so much to wear, and we said farewell to a time in our life by throwing it away. It made me think, how the hell did I get so much stuff. I could not remember buying it all or anything. It’s more important to gain selfrespect by doing something rather than buying yourself status. Money alone makes no-one happy, and that’s the bottom line in anyones life. Happiness.

What do you think are the similarities between black metal and industrial music?

I don’t know how anyone see the similarities. It all depends on your perspective about what you think is black metal or industrial. Industrial to me is Skinny Puppy and Front 242. They are not very close to BM.

It seems to me that both have a similar approach to rhythm, relative to death or heavy or speed metal, and that both also focus on atmosphere and originate in a classically-influenced genre. Do you like the music of Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream and Einsturzende Neubauten?

I enjoy Kraftwerk yes. I just have one Einstrutzene album which is great, but I’ve never sat down to listen to Tangerine Dream.

I’m going to rip off a line from Wrath of Averse Sefira (who could name songs from Hallucinating Anxiety in detail when queried at random, not having heard the album in seven years) who said that Celtic Crost in many ways were the first to unify visual aspect, and presentation, of their band with the content of their music and its raw, gnarly aesthetic. in many ways, they birthed grandeur in metal also. Is this something you feel?

Well, they had it all for themself for a long time and came up with very original concepts for album covers, lyrix and musical experimentation. They took metal places it had not been before with their avant garde style of composing. I admire their original style very much and they are the only band I really want to see on a reunion tour.

I agree that Grieg and Mozart are genius. How much of the effect of classical music do you feel is a result of its form, or the abstraction of artistic form in general (in view of jazz, Hendrix and progressive derivations of classical in modern popular music), where form is defined as the method of artistic presentation itself relative to the content, or unique expression within, each work?

Classical music from the 18th century (Grieg, Wagner etc. ) was a result of anti-darwinism and used to show that humans were special and not animals. I think the extreme metal has many of the same thoughts behind it as it’s normally very strict and concrete when it’s performed. The kind of metal we play has no room for improvisation in the way of music with blues/jazz roots. Form and content belong together to produce the music we make. I dont know what you are compearing jazz and hendrix to this for, but maybe I didnt understand your question..(?)

Do you compose with emphasis on rhythmic expectancy, or write riffs for conclusive melodic phrasing?

It’s too abstract to say it this way. I just play what sounds good and experiment alot with strange chords and melodic lines. I’m a riffmaker who needs a great drummer to complete my ideas. I view the overall sound first and foremost.

I asked earlier: if you recorded another album in the worldview of the original Cadaver, what do you think it would be? and you said: “It will never happen.” If we created a temporary reality somewhere where someone like you and the original members of the band somehow came together now, independent of this reality entirely, what would the next Cadaver album sound like? Imagine outside influences of tedium like job, mortality, items, etc.

What was will never be again. I have so different views on music to the rest of the original members that it’s nothing I would even like to do for fun. We have no plans for this and I’m pretty sure it’s never gonna happen…

You mentioned that Czral was writing more of the material on this round. Are you still influenced by black metal and industrial, or reaching toward a different sound?

We have written 3 new songs now. Czral has one song which is entirely with his riffs, and the other 2 have 1 riff from him and 1 riff from LJ in it. It sounds very exiting to us right now, but we dont know where it’s taking us yet. It’s more midpaced tempos now, but the blastbeats are still there too. I dont know what kind of industrial you’re taking about, but it’s got some more black metal to it than “discipline” so far.

How do you write songs as a band? Have you taken advantage of virtual songwriting (sending MP3s, tapes, WAVs, CDRs, to each other)?

We have 1 rehearsal a week were we try to complete 1 song each time. It’s a very ambitious project, but it’s forcing us to work on ideas all the rest of the week. We just meet now and then to check out riff and ideas with each other at home. We all live pretty close so that’s why it works.

I saw a little of your Milwaukee Metalfest performance last year (I think – I was wasted, and never visited the bar – it may have been a couple years ago) and it seemed like the music acquired a very linear quality with the tunneling dynamics of the hall. What would it be like to write music if you practiced in a huge thunderous concert hall?

That would have been useless. We play with volume down to hear all details and work towards recording in a studio, so the less noisy the better. I’m not 15 years old anymore…

I like the idea of practicing softly for better discernment. Do you play any acoustic instruments? By the same principle, they must also strengthen musicianship.

I play the piano and acoustic guitar too yes.

Do any of the members of Cadaver, inc endorse any lifestyles including drugs, cannibalism, sodomy, genocide, war, polygamy, polyamory or Judeo-Christian homegrown goodness?

We are so different people privately that I really don’t know that much about the rest of the guys in those terms. I don’t like bands that assure people they are normal all of the time. What is normal? I’m a creative person that seeks oppertunities for myself, and I work in the music-business fulltime. It’s lifestyle bound together by the music, all of the above is for people that needs a hobby. . .
very interesting. as a professional musician, you are here for musical reasons only. this explains the musical contributions of your works. what do you think are your largest contributions, as a musician, to the musical lexicon of death and black metal?

I dont know really. I find that the people who really remember what Cadaver did are mostly musicians themselves. It’s not easy for me to see what my contribution might be. Maybe it’s almost nothing so far, and that my real contribution will be in the future.

Anything else you’d like to talk about?

Another thing, I feel very much more in relation to the Black metal scene than the death metal scene of today. If you file Cadaver Inc. under anything, it should be black metal.

Thank you. Keep on buying CD’s so we can release as many as we can write!

This eternal accusation against Christianity I shall write upon all walls, wherever walls are to be found—I have letters that even the blind will be able to see. . . . I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough,—I call it the one immortal blemish upon the human race. . . . And mankind reckons time from the dies nefastus when this fatality befell—from the first day of Christianity!—Why not rather from its last?—From today?—The transvaluation of all values! . . .

– F.W. Nietzsche, The Antichrist

Monotheistic religions alone furnish the spectacle of religious wars, religious persecutions, heretical tribunals, that breaking of idols and destruction of images of the gods, that razing of Indian temples and Egyptian colossi, which had looked on the sun 3,000 years: just because a jealous god had said, “Thou shalt make no graven image.”

– Arthur Schopenhauer, Religion: a Dialogue (1851)

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Editor’s note: this originally appeared in issue #3 of the zine “voices wake us…” (“Voices Wake Us…” Zine. $1ppd. voiceswakeuszine@hotmail.com) but it can be disseminated freely so long as this notice remains intact.

Questions by “Voices Wake Us…” Zine.
Answers by MkM (vokillz).

First off, what is your name and what part do you play in the band (instrument or vocals, etc.)?

vokalist, disease holder of AntaeuS. Satanik stigmata & preacher of the Void. 27 years old up to this day, non dead to most humans. Frontman & main voice for AntaeuS, I do speak for Him.

Now to the real questions. Black Metal’s legendary “first wave” included so many legendary bands like Mayhem, Darkthrone, and Immortal. Many conclude that the evolution of BM ceased after this period, so what do you think Antaeus’ relation is to the progression of the art? Is it justifiable to be merely more extreme? Can anything be added to the music at this point that has not been done already?

Black Metal does mix both ideology & musick, on this level, I would have to point out that most of nowadays bands have no linkz with the real meaning of this Art.Immortal never really took part of the bm kult, though their sound is very similar, their concept would be more based on northern landscapes, while bands like dark throne & mayhem had a more nihilitic death feels to the lyrikz & the aura was a bit more depressive in most cases.

We are payin hommage to those bands of the second wave, for their dedication in the early days & the message they did spread. We do evolve in the same vein, we hold the same message & our speech is based on hatred, denial of life & anything that would be related to “holyness” any religions wise, anything “human” related would be a target.

Black metal = SataN in its most strikt vision, we here speak of death, total death & the praise of the vortex that would swallow all. Though the utopia of such an ending is known of us, we do work in this way, spreading our disease & disgust of life and the concept related to it.

Sound wise, we are more extreme than the suscited bands, we couldn’t perform the same of art, for multiple reasons : we do breed violence more than depression (as individuals) & we do perform what we are & breath. The band is composed of 5 individuals more or less evolving on the Hate path. Me & Set being at the forefront of this, & since we are the main composer (him for the music & I being the sole responsible for any lyrikz & propaganda), we are the trademark of AntaeuS.

Also our approach is more destruktive than the “90s” gloomy approach of darkness, while they were opening gates of despair, we are opening gates of torment & pain.

Both are as effective, I truely find my inspiration in both, but violence is our key, our vektor.

Feel his pulse through us.

We are one stone of the edifice.

Black Metal is like a kathedral of Hate, it is not a question of evolution, the “evil”ution within takes place within the rankz of devotee evolving & praising the kult.

You have expressed dissatisfaction with the Cut Your Flesh and Worship Satan album as being too rushed in the studio. To me, I can say I do not think it harms the record and adds to the urgency of the album. However, you have a new album coming out and will this be different and in what way a “representation” of the band that we have not already seen?

Somehow you are right, now that the album is older to my ears (two years or so) I get to listen to it in different perspectives, not rekalling all the shitty detailz about its conception & its spreading.CYFAWS was a gathering of mostly old trackz, like demos & reh tracks, all gathered on the same full lenght. Only one track never appeared anywhere before the cd release (though I am not even too sure about that now, I should check the live tape on chanteloup creations…) also the cd had three different rekording on it, which was a bit messy & made it sound more like a recollection than anything else.

Now, I think that baphomet did allow the band to put all together the most efficient earlier track of the band (inner war, devotee, nihil khaos…) but a rerecording of the whole album would have been best, now that would be the main complain about this lp.

Also this album did cost us a lot of money, but I do not fool myself, it is the same way for many bands around here, still having labels to cash on your work without being fair to the band is something I will never tolerate. That made me freak out, the band never got a fuckin cent out of the sale of the band, considering it did reach around 3000 copies (which is amazing to us, we never expected this much) one could easily guess that we got massively fucked on this one.

DE PRINCIPII EVANGELIKUM the newest release presents a more compact release, being composed on a two years basis, the whole has a more “united” strukture & lyrikz wise, that did allow me to have something fully solid. This time the lyrikz are included, I had the time to type all in time so people will finally get to understand what lies behind antaeus, though it will remain obscure to most or simply fucked up.

DPE is less easy to get into, it took me a few month to get into some trackz myself, having one hell of a hard time to lay vokalz on those & get the whole strukture in the reh’ room

The band does reh’ around 6/7 hours per week in the reh’ room & more when we get nearer to live exp or studio rekording. We get ridd off a lot of material, our work is very serious & we are making sure to have the most efficient offering to the black metal kult.

I think that one thing that would lack on DPE would be the intro sektion that are truely important to me, this time the drummer & I did lack time to meet & do something of my taste, that is my main “negative critic” to the new album. Next release shall see a return to those sonic landscapes & all the frustration that did hide behind those.

Many BM bands are one-person projects (Burzum, Bathory, Taake, Krieg, Ildjarn, eventually Emperor, and at times Darkthrone). What is the band construct of Antaeus? How does the song-writing process work and who does most of the “legwork” for the band, ie: setting up gigs and record-related business. Any comments on past members or development of the band over time?

You would mention there strongminded individuals that had one hard time finding the right members to perform their art with, or simply couldn’t deal with others, due to ego conflikts.I was just a session member in the early days, being too busy with my zine & my distribution (& my former band)

When AntaeuS turned into a virus in me, I felt like it had to evolve further than the limitations that the main man back then had for it. I think that all took shape when I got hold of all the strukture of AntaeuS, getting set as main guitarist was the best move ever, since we have known each other for years & we had the same musikal taste (for the early 90s sound, nowadays we tend to listen to different aktz yet our basis are the same).

Drum wise, we decided to get ridd off the drum machine & never changed since.

Bass & rythm guitar wise, we might have had more than 20 different members within the band, but in 98 we did finally find the right one, being also involved in Eternal Majesty with whom we did a split demo back then. I did know them since they were working a lot with SPIKEKULT (since their first demo, “dark empire”).

Since then, the line up is perfekt & all of us are united & work on the musikal struktures.

For all the rest, interviewz, ideals, propaganda, kontaktz, ALL is done by me & me only. Mostly due to the fact that I am the only one speakin & writtin in english.

That does take a lot of my time, due to this I did stop all others implications (my zine, other bands & even spikekult for some months/years).

We do not seek gigs really, since conditions are always fuckin ridiculous or awful, I try to avoid to the max getting to play live, though we had two or three great shows since 94; mostly over the two past years.

Getting gas money & some beers seems to be the VERY best we could get in europe, even if we perform in front of 300 people… the cost to rent a place is so high that none could ever pay the band.

A couple reviews I’ve read of CYFaWS, while positive, have accused the band of not bringing anything new to the table. Stylistically, I would say that Antaeus is a) faster (I’d say only Krieg is as fast), b) more “grind”, c) less atmospheric, d) more brutal and divided into penetrating structures of noise than in an “epic” sense of many bands. Agree? What is the aesthetic you are going for here, other than just “fast.” Because it is definitely a unique and not just a retro sound.

I do agree with those reviewz, still we never did claim to bring anything to new, so I sometimes wonder why we are accused of that, just like we were lyin about it.True, we are faster, though I would use “more brutal” instead, since speed for itself doesn’t mean much to us, tons of swedish bands are playin hyper fast, but both the drumz & riffs are without any effects on the listener.

Brutality & Hate are the main faktors in AntaeuS sound, we do hold this pulse & seek to create such aura within any rekording of ours.

Our epic approach might be linked to the tension we do put in the rekordin process.

The grind aspect cannot be denied as well, musik wise, some bands are truely unique to me, but the message, most of the time, would be simply ridiculous or be the opposite of my ideas.

Older grind bands had more of a dark or sick approach compared to today’s fun/gore/political bands.

Hate is a large concept of the band. Does this reach over into politics at all? Many BM are clearly fascist, a politics based on hate, while others are nihilistic (and in that sense, partially anarchistic). Views of politics in yourself and in the scene?

Hate is anywhere, but most politics would serve some instead of others, while we support the death of ALL; all those fascist bands are always a source of interrogation in my kamp. All those linked to black metal & openly using both the sigils of SataNism & those of Nazism are creating a nonsense to me.the nihilistic part is often dealing with one hope for a brighter future, built on the ashes of nowadays society & values.

I do not have any hope of this kind, the only hope I have is tattooed on my chest.

Let’s go back on the nonsense, I don’t care about NS bands as long as they are not linked with black metal. Politics would limit the initial meaning of black metal.

NSBM seems more serious to the young than the “inverted cross”, since it would represent something more “socially involved”, having to deal with values that would be more “linked” to todays world & having more impact due to the importance of sigils (ie : the use of swastika or SS sigils are full of meaning & related to happening that took place less than a century ago). Politics are giving black metal a more “humanistic” approach, which I don’t really understand. I would understand sadistik exekution using SS symbols or funeral mist for their vision of death in general, but as far as “human values” are involved, I simply don’t get it.

Any individuals mixin bm with ns should realize that there is already a scene for that, anything metal related is more or less viewed as “outcast” due to the code of life (destruktive, alcohol, aggression)…

anyway when I think of those teens doing “sieg heil” here & there with their beers & long hair, they would be among the first to enter the gas kamp that does make me laugh

Death is the main goal anyway.

In what sense is Antaeus a “do it yourself” band that controls the aspects of recording, promotion, management, and production itself? You are clearly dedicated to the underground, but many people are not familiar with the metal underground as much as the more-established and cohesive American punk underground. How does the underground work and how much is Antaeus a separate entity from outside control and influence of labels, promoters, etc?

A would be my band then, since I would be responsible for most of those aspects.Being honest, I am not too aware of the punk scene, though got to meet up with some labels from around here pressing punk vinylz & their scene seemed much more “supportive” & less “inner war” in between labels & so on. I might have a wrong of it though.

I would be totally dedicated to one aspect of the ug scene, which I could describe as the only real scene, with true sick freakz & not wannabes & morons of any kind that would pollute the bm kult.

those idiots are numerous & for the past years, I would have spent way too much time on those inbreed fags instead on workin on my code of life & supporting what had to be supported with the scene (bands & labels wise). Now we are viewed as traitors to most, since we did sign to Osmose.

Osmose allows us a studio rekording budget & having the whole distribution in their hand, I could never deal with that myself, my daily job takes around 50 hours per week now (compared to 70 h per week for last year) which makes it nearly impossible to cope with the mail & any correspondance in general. Even reh’ with the band got closed to impossible for me. All is getting better now, but as far as I am concerned, if A didn’t sign to Osmose, all would have stopped. I couldn’t go on paying 300 usd per month for the band, not having enough to cope for my own living cost.

Now we do loose less cash, but we still loose. So when I get to read that we did become fucking rockstars or sell out, I might ask to whom did we sell out???

A band selling 5000 copies (which even ain’t our case) could never live out of it, I am sure that you are aware of that, but many readers out there that did write us do think that we do earn enough money with the band to live with….

It was ok to reply to those questions the first years, but after a while, it killed me that most people wouldn’t get how it workz…

But hell, we are talking about fuckin labels detailz & how bands are getting fucked most of the time

Right now with Osmose, all is doing ok, we just did spend around 400 usd for this one, (lay out & mastering) since we did excess a bit the budget allowed for the studio rekording.

How is the French “scene?” Are there many bands, zines, or venues to play in? Are there a lot of posers?

Scene in france is not my fave subjekt, I did support many bands from around here in the past, being proud of my “local scene”, but all those bands did fuckin backstabb us for no reasons or so. “allies of today are the backstabbers of tomorrow”, thus I don’t mention too much about bands from around here.There is a fair deal of akts though, most of them are amateurish to the core & spending more time in front of camera or doing shirtz than working on the musikal parts.

All of them are envious little morons who are offended when they realize it is not that “easy” to have a cd out. They all think that demos are useless & that the underground is just a chat room on the net.

For the older ones, we had either conflikts with them or totally different views.

Apart from a few dozen individual in the whole france, we don’t get along too much with individuals from around here.

I had my fair deal of war around here.

In the newer band ; dark opus & aosoth are among my faves

DEATHSPELL OMEGA must be the ultimate black metal band the traditionnal way. END ALL LIFE is without any doubt the best vinyl bm label, they must have by now the CYFAWS on lp out, & that is one Honour for us to be on that label.

Zines? well 666 is the best in the extreme bm/dm way, eternal fire was killer too but defunct (or simply no newz from them since long), stregoica was kult in its dayz, now they are doing ordealis rekords which is very promising (killer work from their part), deadfuckinchurch is a good zine but he said that his final issue will be the next…

Some distro are great too, like paleur mortelle & warchangel.

AntaeuS will have a split 10″ with AOSOTH on Paleur Mortelle (akhaeus@aol.com) in the comin month btw.

Gigs wise, the audience is way better than any us gigs that I got to visit (& I had my fair deal of us deals over the three or four stayz I did over there), we usually get from 150 to 400 nowadays, but places are not so numerous & each venues does cost around 2000 to 3000 usd to rent for a night, with such prices, no bands would get any payment, asking for gas payment is already a dream for bands.

Due to that, in 2001, antaeus only performed live Once.

We did perform a bit more over the past months, with bands like nargaroth, taake, enthroned, eternal majesty…

The last hellish gig we did do was in Paris with taake & enthroned, our best set ever since 2001

In nov 002 we will be among the opening bands for the DEICIDE european tour, we shall desecrate new countries & I do expekt that tour I must say.

It’s nothing you’d understand, but I do have something to say. In fact, I have a lot to say, but now is not the time or place. I don’t know why I’m wasting my time or breath. But what the hell? As for what is said of my life, there have been lies in the past and there will be lies in the future. I don’t believe in the hypocritical, moralistic dogma of this so-called civilized society. I need not look beyond this room to see all the liars, haters, the killers, the crooks, the paranoid cowards — truly trematodes of the Earth, each one in his own legal profession. You maggots make me sick — hypocrites one and all. And no one knows that better than those who kill for policy, clandestinely or openly, as do the governments of the world, which kill in the name of God and country or for whatever reason they deem appropriate. I don’t need to hear all of society’s rationalizations, I’ve heard them all before and the fact remains that what is, is. You don’t understand me. You are not expected to. You are not capable of it. I am beyond your experience. I am beyond good and evil, Legions of the night — night breed — repeat not the errors of the Night Prowler and show no mercy. I will be avenged. Lucifer dwells within us all. That’s it.

– Richard Ramirez

Most BM has diverged into “symphonic,” commercial crap. I’m sure you have some ventings on bands like this (Dimmu Borgir, Anorexia Nervosa, Ancient), or on “retro” bands like Dark Funeral. To many, Black Metal must remain underground and elite, and yet within it are elements that are more palatable to the masses- a band like Immortal proving that BM can be commodified over time. Thoughts on this phenomenon in Black Metal?

Like anywhere, when you get an artistic style that would be perceived as elitist & underground, one will have the wish to “extand” it on a different level, for various reasons.Some considers that the message should not be limited to one handful of individuals

some seems to think that they would sell more rekords having an “evil” image Some just find it “cool” to use such imagery Others are living the black metal kult, on a daily basis.

Music wise, I am closed minded when it comes to black metal, not opening myself too much to new genres, though I did try to pay attention to all those bands poppin up & crossing goth, indus & so on with black metal.

I must admit that diabolicum & mysticum were the only one that did match my expektations when it comes to the aura created.

On the other level, I also pay attention to the “performers”, for example : Anorexia Nervosa is often quoted as fag band, mostly due to the COF sounding of the musick. But on a personal level, the frontman is really a sicko & is among those few individuals I consider. Yet he would be a bit too much “rock n roll” sometimes eh too much drugz & autodestruction for me (which does provide a smile, that does you an idea on how fucked the man can be) aktually I think that when you get to meet him, he would be more in his place belongin to sadistik exekution than anorexia (musick wise) Ancient & dimmu borgir never made it to me, not even one track from their early days (the ep of ancient was ok though).

You did qualify some elements of black metal as “palatable” for the masses, yet we have to redefine masses then, since those masses would be the “extreme metal scene” which is not that wide, only a few thousands people I would say.

Not something that could be play on the air of any local radio show & musical tv shows or whatever. We are not dealing with “pop” music. But I do agree, black metal did sadly evolve to a wider audience & that doesn’t mean that the real audience did grow bigger, just that it did expand to people that simply don’t get a clue of what real black metal is about.

Having some individuals to compare napalm death to dark throne amazes me… the only link between those bands is mostly in the instruments used & some beats. (& some would kill me for the “rythm” comparaison)

Anyway, on our level, like other bands, we remain an underground band, you will most likely always find “cyfaws” & “dpe” on cd format, but we will go on doing limited tapes & vinylz. Only for those few sick ones that are also the pulse of the band.

It does mean a lot to us to be supported by like minded individuals, band members or zine editors or just listeners.

I do not get much letters in that vein, but with those few with whom we share visions, getting to read some comments on AntaeuS work is always rewarding.

Our satanik audio violence would be a weapon & only some individuals know how to handle it & how to view it properly.

Carcass or Bolt Thrower? Pick one.

Fuck… Bolt Thrower

at least they didn’t change & “cenotaph” is an instant classic for me, such as the “in the battle there is no law” lp. carcass had amazing trackz but fuckin wimped out too much for my taste.

When can we expect the new album (on Osmose, right?) and will there ever be an American tour??

the new rekordin shall be out on sept 23rd in europe, so obviously a bit later in the usa, osmose doesn’t have a distributor over there I think, so most releases are available mostly through ug mailorders & so on. I doubt one will find it as easily as CYFAWS over there. I seriously doubt on the american tour thing, though I wish we could go over there & perform with bands like black witchery, thornspawn, krieg, demoncy, gbk & so on. Since we are doing a european tour for “DPE” in november, as opening band for Deicide, I am not nearly sure that no tour will happen until the next release (the third album that is).Having us on a european tour would mean getting the band on a bigger “bill”, having an headlining band that could make it possible. As of now, I have no big expectation about a us tour, since it seems nearly impossible, we are not “selling” enough to be pushed that way.

The Deicide tour is already something really expensive.

In the future, who knowz? but I wouldn’t be surprised if the band never gets to perform over there.

Bands like marduk, satyricon & others took forever to go to the other continent & most of the time, itz like a money vortex more than anything else.

Time shall tell, we still have to perform over here first, that is our territory & we haven’t visited more than three countries as of now (which would be like performin in three different states for a us bands).

To you, what is most important in sustaining black Metal into the coming years, as it is increasingly an “endangered” form of music?

I see it that way : Evil will never dies, it might change shape, as long as some form of Art will be dedicated to its “grandeur”, I see no problem with itBlack Metal has somehow a more raw approach to it, a darker incarnation meant to appeal to more extreme masses, thus a minority of individuals are truely meant to understand fully the concept behind this genre.

Black metal is nowadays marketed as a musical genre only, with gimmicks to help the sales. Many bands did take the opportunity to rise using those “eye catching” ideas related to black metal.

Your top 5 BM records?

DarkThrone “a blaze in the northern sky”
Funeral Mist “devilry”
Katharsis “666” + “red eye of wrath” demo
Blasphemy “fallen angel of doom”
Beherit “D. down the moon” (& oath of the black blood)those are the ultimategettin near to that, I’d add sadistik exekution (all releases), profanatica, demoncy, krieg… I’d easily give 20 names that would represent the whole list of bands I really support…. Giving 30 names would be impossible though. not enough bands have individuals matchin the right ideology one should have within the bm scene.

Thanks for the interview! Good luck on your upcoming record and in the inevitable Satanic victory over the forces of light. Have a nice day

Forces of Light are forces of lies as well, they are their own failure & we shall be the witness & the temptation for them.Take a look in the abyss & the abyss will stare back at you

For we hold the ultimate void, we shall go on, we are Omega.

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Some people exist as unsung pillars of the underground, and Ray Miller of death metal band Adversary is one of them. First, he started up a zine called Metal Curse that is widely regarded as one of the few quality death metal magazines extant today; next, he began selling death and black metal through his label Cursed Productions, which has also released quality demo compilations from bands such as Varathron and Deceased. Finally, he’s in a death metal band called Adversary which could be described as a more late-night-radio American version of Asphyx. We caught up with him at his country villa in Chingadosmujeres, Mexico, as the first shots of a revolution rang out in the street.

When did ADVERSARY begin?
Just a little over five years ago, in May of 1994. Jack Botos (guitar) and I are two of the original founding members. Our drummer, Bob Burns, is fairly new – he’s been damned with us for about a year-and-a-half.

What’s the distribution of the creative work in songwriting, lyrics, artwork, and concept/pot smoking?
Anyway, in the beginning we had another guitarist, Thom Benford, and he wrote a couple riffs back then. But since he quit (before our first demo was released), Jack and I have written all the music and lyrics. However, when Ed was still in the band (on keyboards and drum programming – before we had a human drummer, of course), he created all the drum and keyboard arrangements. How that would work is that Jack or I would present some riffs, or sometimes a “complete” song (the riffs in the “right” order – we sort of tweaked stuff a lot as we worked on it, so a “finished” song would probably still mutate somewhat), and Ed would listen to us play it a few times and get some ideas.

Then we’d record the riffs on my 4-track, and Ed would work out the programming at home, and at the next practice maybe have something we could play along with. Now that Bob is in the band, we just show him a riff, and he starts playing behind it. Right before Ed quit (he got married…), he had written a few really great riffs for a new song, but we decided to not use them after he left. Not that we parted on bad terms, or anything of the sort.

As far as the artwork goes for the band, it’s been different on every release. On our new demo-CD, We Must Be In Hell, Bob brought over few books of photos and paintings, and we basically swiped one. I altered the colors and so on, and did the actual layout myself. I’ve done CD packaging designs for a few underground labels, in addition to my own releases on Cursed Productions.

I also publish a zine called Metal Curse, and Bob has done 99% of the art for that for the last several issues.

Concept… Well, I suppose our general sound was more or less my idea, being inspired by “simple” Death Metal such as MASSACRE, ASPHYX, (early) GRAVE, UNLEASHED, IMPETIGO, (early) DEATH, AUTOPSY, and onward into countless others. Of course Jack has done his fair share (or more) to shape our sound since. And now, with Bob, we have the added power of human drumming, but we have also lost our keyboards.

So, I suppose our sound is almost constantly evolving, but still hopefully memorable Death Metal. If that’s what you mean by “concept” at all…

As for pot smoking, I leave that to Jack. I don’t smoke, or even drink unless it’s a “special occasion.” So, Jack gets my share. Bob has been known to partake every now and then, too.

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to teach him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently.
– F.W. Nietzsche

Are you guys touring?
I wish! That’s exactly what we would love to do, but Cursed Productions is too small to support it. That’s one of the reasons we would like to get signed to a larger label: So we can go out and see the world. And the sluts, of course. We do have some shows lined up during the summer, and there is a really slim possibility of us going to Brazil to play some shows with some bands (NERVOCHAOS and INSANITY) on Muvuca Records.

What kind of instruments do you play, and why?
I have a Washburn bass, and a Fender Bassman amp. I like my Washburn because it does not have all that “active electronics” bullshit. It’s old, but I’m attached to it. And speaking of old, my Bassman is nice and fuzzy, and I really like that sound. I think it adds a lot more depth to our live sound than a clean bass tone would. However, when we recorded our debut album, _The Winter’s Harvest_, I was talked into plugging directly into the board, and got a really clear “Steve Harris” kind of sound. That works pretty well for IRON MAIDEN, but I think it made the album sound more “clean” than it should have. Well, and the keyboards and drum machine also added to the “clean” sound… Believe me, I learned my lesson about that, and will stick with my “warm” Bassman sound form now on.

Jack has had a couple different guitars over the years, and he just got a new one. I think he may finally be satisfied with the guitar, but now he’s looking for a bigger, meaner amp.

And my drum knowledge is pathetic, so all I know about Bob’s kit, is that it’s like nuclear explosions going off whenever he hits the snare.

Do you feel it matters, or matters only for aesthetic (“sound” quality, texture, timbre, “feel”) qualities?
What else would it matter? Just to be like B.B. King and his beloved guitar? No, I’m not that attached to any equipment I own, so if I could afford to get a bass and amp that I thought sounded better, I would. But “sounding better” is obviously extremely subjective, and after many years of using this same gear (I’ve had it and been in bands for a lot longer than ADVERSARY has been around), I guess I’m so used to it, that I’m not sure what would sound better. So, maybe I *am* a little like B.B. after all.

The Christian resolution to make the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad.
– F.W. Nietzsche

What are you guys like outside of the band? Do you suffer under the Judeo-Christian pestilence known as “day jobs”? Tattoos? Historical heroes?
Bob and Jack do have “day jobs,” but my full time job is running my label, Cursed Productions. It may seem odd, but none of us have any tattoos. I think we may be the only ink-free Death Metal band in the world! I’m not sure I really have any heroes other than the guys in MOTORHEAD. And, as my pal Psycho would say, “the guy who invented lesbian pornography.”

Is the ADVERSARY eponym an identification with Satan, the “adversary” of ancient Hebrew religion?
YES! Thank you. You are exactly the second person to ever ask me that. I had thought it was odd that no one had snatched up the name before us, but I guess not many people understand what it means.

What do you see as the difference between Jewish, Christian, Islamic and Buddhist views of “evil”/”suffering”?
I’m not really well enough versed in Islam and Buddhism to answer that. So, what I’ll do instead is say that mainstream (x-tian at least) religions seem to think that a lot of natural behavior should be considered “evil,” and that seems crazy to me. Fucking, well that’s evil. Killing, no matter what the situation, that’s evil too.

What forms of art, ideas, or actions inspired the inception of your artwork?
Early Death Metal, of course. But also other music, such as MOTORHEAD, VENOM, SLAYER (I believe that you consider them to be a Death Metal band, but that’s open to debate, if you ask me), ACCEPT, DEAD KENNEDYS… Non mainstream music in general. And I suppose that honestly, everything I’ve ever heard has inspired me in some way. Maybe not always in a positive way, though. I also read whenever I can, and have certainly been inspired by the authors I like, such as Charles Bukowski, Henry Miller, Vladimir Nabokov, Italo Calvino, Jorge Luis Borges, William S. Burroughs, Douglas Adams, to name just a very, very few. Plus, as geeky as it might sound, Godzilla movies. I’ve always been a huge fan (excepting the dismal TriStar attempt of last summer) of Godzilla and his monstrous pals. And, horror movies. Zombies, especially, seem to grab my interest. I appreciate the special effects, and I suppose like the thrill.

Do you consider your music a form of “art” (the academic definition, not the trendy one)?
Certainly.

What motive inspires your art?
To create something that will outlast us.To, in sort of a Shakespearean sense, live forever. The hope that someday we might be a source of inspiration for others to creatively express what they feel.And to one day take over for MOTORHEAD as the best, most respected, band in the world.

Or maybe just to meet chicks and take over the world.

Do you think drugs help/hinder art?
I can’t really answer that, since I don’t use any drugs. But I do think that drugs can be used as a tool to possibly help with creativity. However, they can also be detrimental. As I said, I think they’re a tool, and should be used as such, if at all.

Does religion help/etc?
Well, it sure seems like a lot of Extreme Metal bands these days rely on religious (or more accurately, anti-religious) themes in their lyrics, so I guess it helps them in that way. I think that organized religion is a great way to oppress and control the masses, so it “helps” us by giving us a focus on one of society’s problems: it’s easier to be a sheep than to accept responsibility for your own actions, think for yourself, and be your own person.

Of course, x-tian religions love to censor everything they can, from books to thoughts, so in that way, that kind of religion clearly hinders the creative process.

“They train them to drop fire on men… But they won’t let them write the word FUCK on their aeroplanes… Becuase it’s obscene!”
-Colonel Kurtz, Apocalypse Now!

Violence?
I don’t know if violence has any affect on art, but I suppose that as a society becomes more and more violent, the art it as a whole produces will reflect that.

Television?
Most of what’s on broadcast television is extremely dumbed down, so that even the most idiotic Joe Sixpack will understand it, so generally I see TV as sort of a filter that removes most of what is interesting about life. Even worse when a movie is butchered so that it can be “safely” shown without “offending” anyone.

In your personal lives, how do you understand and respond to the presence of corporate control and material need?
Of course you do need to pay the bills, and obviously I like music and books, so I do my best to bring in cash, and spend it just as well. It would be nice to not have to worry about huge companies like Blockbuster having more than a little control in determining the content of the movies they carry, or Meijer driving all the mom and pop grocery stores out of business, but when faced with the decision of having enough to eat if I get the shit at Meijer, or going hungry from trying to support a local store, I must choose to eat.

What do you think of “jobs”?
I don’t like them. I am lucky enough to be able to make a very modest living at doing something that I enjoy (Cursed Productions, Metal Curse, and ADVERSARY), but I do put in a lot more time at this than Jack and Bob do combined at their jobs. Sometimes, just for a second, I wonder if it wouldn’t be easier to go work for someone else. Certainly it would be easier, and considerably less work. I could have more “free time” to read and relax. But at what cost? So I could go be a nameless cog in some huge machine that cares not at all about me, as I am utterly replacable? So I could “finally grow up and get a real job”? I don’t think so. To quote Jello Biafra, “I’d rather stay a child and keep my self respect, if being an adult means being like you.” But, then again, if one day Cursed Productions fails to provide me with enough to get by, I will be forced to take other actions. That’s not part of the Global Domination plan, though.

Do you blaspheme on a regular basis for dentological, aka done for the intensity of the action itself, reasons?
Maybe. It seems more appropriate to blaspheme for the reaction it generates in others, whether positive or negative, as both responces are extremely important at various times and in various situations. But just screaming “Fuck god!” in an empty room doens’t do much for me.

Are you moral? Do you believe in morality?
I suppose so, but I certainly have my own morality. What I think is “right and wrong” might not match up with what some people think. I’m fairly close to what LaVey says in the _Satanic Bible_ as far as morality is concerned.

Do you think ethics are separate from morals?
I hadn’t considered it before. Perhaps morals could be seen as a personal code of conduct, while ethics might be viewed as more of a code of conduct for groups or whole societies. Perhaps to remain with the given society, one would have to conform to the ethical “guidelines,” while still retaining his own personal morality that might only come into play in other societies or groups.

What is the most important factor for you in creating music that satisfies you at the deepest level?
Knowing that what we have created is honest and true to us.

If you met Jesus, what would you say?
“Until I see you turn this water into wine, you’re just a punk in sandals.”

Or, maybe upon seeing a “miracle” I couldn’t debunk, “Oh shit!”

Hitler?
If I were back in time, I might say, “Stay out of Russia.” But no matter when I saw him, I’d want to talk about eugenics. What else could you talk to Hitler about?

“God”?
Now that depends on what you mean by “God.” But, playing along for a moment, I’d ask why we exist, and what the purpose of the universe is.

Nietzsche?
Maybe I could get him and Hitler together, as the conversations would be pretty related.

Gandhi?
I’d tell him that passive resistance cannot always work.

Without music life would be a mistake.
-F.W. Nietzsche

How would you react if your daughter got breast implants?
Interesting. I’ll try to take this one seriously. From the perspective of a father, I don’t think I’d like it, but I would certainly have to have more information as to why she was doing it. Is it just the fact that she’s small chested and wants to fuck the football team, who will only fuck the big boobed cheerleaders, or does she think that she’ll be better able to control the weak sheep-wills of men and have legions to do her bidding? If she wants to get a boob job so that she can dominate the universe, then okay.

Do you feel society is evolved from the hominid state, aka “ape” social existence with inherent power games?
Evidently not. As George Carlin would say, “It’s the bigger dick policy at work. If they have bigger dicks, bomb them.”

Why do you feel that many experience a dark sense of foreboding regarding the millenium and significant times afterward, such as 2012?
Fear of the unknown, for one thing. And I don’t have to mention that most people are sheep, and that the media has been forcing “millennium fear” on everyone, so it’s only natural that the herd is worried about it. What’s significant about 2012?

2012 is the date the Mayan calendar “ends” an era, with the implication that what comes will be either total destruction or a new frontier. I however think it is the date when the genome of marijuana truly matures, and thus all earth will be unified in clouds of sweet smoke.
More like the number of bong hits you’ve taken during this interview!

Is ADVERSARY is exploring a new type of metal, and an old type of metal, like any other group of self-respecting artists in this age?
Yeah, it’s sort of like my taste in literature: mythological and postmodern.

A giant HAILS and BLACK VOMIT OF ETERNITY to the mighty ADVERSARY for this lengthy interview.Thank you for your time.
You’re welcome of course. I should really thank you for the interest in ADVERSARY.

…The one-eyed man will have one eye the stronger; the blind man will see deeper inwardly, and certainly hear better. To this extent, the famous theory of the survival of the fittest does not seem to me to be the only viewpoint from which to explain the progress of strengthening of a man or of a race.
– F.W. Nietzsche

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